Drake loses on a T to Weber State.

[ShockerFever]

It's simple. Don't be stupid enough to put yourself in that situation in the first place. Perhaps this can be blamed on poor coaching.

The player could have easily "celebrated" in a way that didn't jeopardize the referee having a chance to blow up a whistle. We all know that T's have been called for slamming the ball. Why even chance it?

Again, don't give the ref a chance to T it up and there's no issue at all. It's a judgment call. Don't give the ref the opportunity to judge the call.

[Kung Wu]

Personally, I'd have no problem if they decided to clean up the game by taking away all the chest beating antics and screaming. But the NCAA has apparently cleared those as acceptable for the time being.

I agree with this wholeheartedly, and a ref could take that stance and make it happen if they wanted to. They could issue warnings early in the game and then throw unsportsmanlike conduct on players that continue to do it. There is nothing preventing that, and I'd personally like to see it.

[SHOXAAC]

I don't recall seeing any of our players "dunk" before the game or at half time. They play above the rim but do not grab the rim. That's where the difference is there.

Very little in basketball is black and white. A lot of it is gray. Still, this ball was bounced pretty high so I don't have a major problem with the call. It was stupid and the kid should not have done it and put himself and his team in a position to be punished for his actions. Just because it's at the end of the game doesn't make anything less or more of a penalty. Or it shouldn't anyway. I know some officials will officiate differently at the end...

It was during a dead ball & it wasn't a thunder dunk. I don't see it in every college game I watch, but it isn't once or twice a year either.

Would you have a problem with every time a coach left the coaching box by an inch to be T'd up. By the rules it is a T. How about players on the bench standing over a call made by an official. That's supposed to be a T. Again, it is all a judgement call. Is it more appropriate to T the Drake player on a call that some very smart posters on this board can't even qualitatively find in the rule book, or T a coach for clearly violating the coaching box. We can't always have our cake and eat it to people.

[SubGod22]

You are allowed to react to plays. It's HOW you react that is judged. Rules aren't always black and white as you're trying to make them. There's the "spirit" of the rules that can be applied in certain areas. I don't know what the MVC or NCAA stresses as enforcement issues or coaches. I do know college is a lot more lenient with the box. If it's a minor infraction of the box you just tell the coach in a casual way to watch his step and please stay in. If he's just coaching and wanders you don't make a huge case out of it. If he leaves it to harass the refs then it's dealt with differently. In KS high schools they're stressing to keep them in at all costs. College isn't near as strict with that.

[ShockTalk]

It's simple. Don't be stupid enough to put yourself in that situation in the first place. Perhaps this can be blamed on poor coaching.

The player could have easily "celebrated" in a way that didn't jeopardize the referee having a chance to blow up a whistle. We all know that T's have been called for slamming the ball. Why even chance it?

Again, don't give the ref a chance to T it up and there's no issue at all. It's a judgment call. Don't give the ref the opportunity to judge the call.

SF, I agree with everything you say here. The problem is the "automatic" T for something that, at best, can discribed as a judgement call. In other words, it is NOT a judgement call, yet things that are perhaps more egregious are not called and some things that are clearly pointed out in the rules, not inforced. This lends itself to potential blatant bias by referees. The best solution is to allow for a review or conference by the referees, if needed, before making a very questionable call on something that is a judgemental T. Or address spiking directly as always a T in the rules. Either way, the "just because" reasoning is lame.

By the way, we'd all like to be as cool, calm, and collected as you are SF and not get too excited. Especially if we were 18-21 years of age (they never have bad judgement), had a rough season, and just (thought they) won a very tough and spirited game.

:lol: :D

[SubGod22]

When has slamming the ball down with enough force to allow it to go as high as this one appeared to ever been acceptable? NBA doesn't count.

[ShockTalk]

You are allowed to react to plays. It's HOW you react that is judged. Rules aren't always black and white as you're trying to make them. There's the "spirit" of the rules that can be applied in certain areas. I don't know what the MVC or NCAA stresses as enforcement issues or coaches. I do know college is a lot more lenient with the box. If it's a minor infraction of the box you just tell the coach in a casual way to watch his step and please stay in. If he's just coaching and wanders you don't make a huge case out of it. If he leaves it to harass the refs then it's dealt with differently. In KS high schools they're stressing to keep them in at all costs. College isn't near as strict with that.

Sub, I think you are hitting on my point. The "spirit" of the rules. Would you agree that spiking the ball is normally associated with a player being upset at a call or another player? In this case, and it sounds like, it all cases, it has been made black and white, no latitude, regardless of the reason, yet it's not even a rule to make it black and white. Particularly in the college game where even black and white rules are not enforced as strictly.

[pinstripers]

wOW. i'M BACK. yES, i THINK STEPPING OUT OF THE COACHING BOX SHOULD BE A t EVERY F-ING TIME. eVERY TIME. aLWAYS

[pinstripers]

oops

[SHOXAAC]

You are allowed to react to plays. It's HOW you react that is judged. Rules aren't always black and white as you're trying to make them. There's the "spirit" of the rules that can be applied in certain areas. I don't know what the MVC or NCAA stresses as enforcement issues or coaches. I do know college is a lot more lenient with the box. If it's a minor infraction of the box you just tell the coach in a casual way to watch his step and please stay in. If he's just coaching and wanders you don't make a huge case out of it. If he leaves it to harass the refs then it's dealt with differently. In KS high schools they're stressing to keep them in at all costs. College isn't near as strict with that.

I can say this...I have seen way more animated coaches every game get pretty negatively excited out of the box, than a player bounce a ball out of excitement with 2 seconds to go in a game. Very seldom does the coach get T'd up.

I probably shouldn't have used the term black & white as much as I did. My point is many officials have this God complex about them. Many of them, just like 20 year-olds, get caught up in the moment and make stupid calls, just like the athlete makes a stupid play or action. We don't live under perfect pretense. Officials should have a better filter about them under these critical situations. The Drake player certainly behaved "on the edge." The referee should have enough experience to recognize what it was, in the moment, and don't (over) over react more than the player did. BAD CALL!!!

[SHOXAAC]

wOW. i'M BACK. yES, i THINK STEPPING OUT OF THE COACHING BOX SHOULD BE A t EVERY F-ING TIME. eVERY TIME. aLWAYS

YEA...IT'S OFFICIAL STRIPER WANTS 4 HOUR COLLEGE GAMES...THE GAME BETTER ADD ANOTHER 10 ASSISTANT COACHES SO THERE IS ENOUGH COACHES TO GET THROUGH A GAME...ISSUE SOLVED...HOW BOUT THEM SHOCKERS!!!

[ShockTalk]

When has slamming the ball down with enough force to allow it to go as high as this one appeared to ever been acceptable? NBA doesn't count.

I'll admit, I was surprised at how high it went. That was the most casual slamming the ball I'd seen. If it had been more of a close up, I wouldn't have guessed it went that high. But it was definitely celebratory, not taunting. Shoot, he might have been the calmest guy on the court for DU.

[SubGod22]

When has slamming the ball down with enough force to allow it to go as high as this one appeared to ever been acceptable? NBA doesn't count.

I'll admit, I was surprised at how high it went. That was the most casual slamming the ball I'd seen. If it had been more of a close up, I wouldn't have guessed it went that high. But it was definitely celebratory, not taunting. Shoot, he might have been the calmest guy on the court for DU.

I get that too. I was surprised how long it took the ball to return. Lets say the official doesn't see the actual act but the result and how high the ball went. Could you completely blame him for reacting? With that said, if you see a result but don't know how it came to be that way you probably shouldn't be blowing your whistle. That happened on an inbound in Maui when I guy slipped and there wasn't a Shocker within three feet of him but the official saw the guy go down and called a foul on the nearest player.

I still go back to the worst judgement of anyone involved in this play is the player for putting himself in this situation. When is slamming the ball down ever a good idea?

I also admit I don't have great knowledge on the college game and how THEY want things called and what the stress. Just high school and what KSHSAA tells me they want. And I'll admit that not all officials agree with what KSHSAA stresses or how they see certain things but they're the ones who lay it down. Different leagues will want us to watch certain things and call it certain ways. I've been told to call the SCBL differently than the AVCTL. College officials deal with the same thing between conferences I'm sure.

[ShockTalk]

Appreciate your input, as always, Sub.

[SubGod22]

I hope I can offer something if its agreed with or not. It's honest and from a perspective that not everyone has been able to experience I think. Or at least I'd like to think.