Drake loses on a T to Weber State.

[AndShock]

I can't help but feeling that we are being "sound-bited" by the slow motion and very short link that was posted.

Does anybody have a link to a full motion version that has the play before it and goes all the way to the free throws?

You don't see the spike on the full motion version. You see the charge and then the refs going to the monitor.

[SB Shock]

Weber State Randy Rahe said he could relate, but reminded folks that rules are rules.

"By rule, it was the right call," he said. "If I'm Drake I'm not happy about it, and if the call had been against us I wouldn't be happy about it. But by rule, you can't do that."

http://www.adn.com/2010/11/27/1576193/weber-state-wins-on-technical.html#ixzz16c7OriiK

Tried to find some idea what the Drake coach thought of the call, but I found that Des Moines news paper doesn't care about drake. They didn't even mention the technical.

Looking at the referees from Statsheet:

Lujan does 3 games a year (e.g. inexperienced and over his head?)

Wilson Holland - does MWC and Big Sky conferences. Averages a technical per every 2 games [kind of seems high, maybe a Hothead]

Glen Mayberry - does mainly PAC10, WAC games. Calls a technical 1 every 3.7 games.

[Kung Wu]

I can't help but feeling that we are being "sound-bited" by the slow motion and very short link that was posted.

Does anybody have a link to a full motion version that has the play before it and goes all the way to the free throws?

You don't see the spike on the full motion version. You see the charge and then the refs going to the monitor.

In the short slow-mo version you see multiple Webster players calling out "the spike" right away. When I have seen "spikes" (unsportsmanlike conduct) in other games, the other team generally doesn't protest, they just go about their business. That's one reason why I think there are words being exchanged or the opinion of the ref was that he was doing it to spite the other team.

[lilshock]

Spiking the ball is an automatic T no matter what!!! If the ball bounces over your head, T.

[ShockTalk]

Spiking the ball is an automatic T no matter what!!! If the ball bounces over your head, T.

Not to disagree, just include in your post the rule and wording directly applying to a spiked ball and the definition of a spiked ball. Please excuse me if I don't just take your word for it.

[pinstripers]

...........uh.............if you know that it is a T sometimes, then don't do it. If you do it, just take your medicine like an adult. ...........What constitutes a bad call, would be when they flag you for bouncing the ball when you never actually bounced it at all.

[ShockerFever]

I think calling it a "spike" is a stretch. I'm in agreement with Fever on his assessment of the play.

'Fever' = AndShock? :sarcasm:

Non-WSU team avys might get a bit confusing :whistle:

:lol:



This type of technical is similar to that of hanging extra on the rim. They both can be celebratory plays made as a positive reaction, but both are not allowed. You can't hang on a rim (assuming nobody is under you) and you can't spike a basketball that high. Intent is a non-factor. It was a stupid move by the Drake player. You just don't spike the ball like that.

From what it sounded like, Drake almost deserved to lose, the way they choked off a big lead like that. If anyone's to blame for this one it's either: the blowing away of a big lead late or Mr. Spiky.


I'd like an opinion from our in-house referees.

This rule is butchered all the time. 75% of the time players hang on the rim after a dunk. It is never called. If the refs are going to make this dead ball high dribble T on spiky, they should whistle players for hangin.

You're probably seeing the 75% of players hanging on the rim to avoid landing on other players or to somehow protect themselves. If that appears to be the intent, then it is ok and not a technical. If nobody's under the rim and a player hangs on it, it'll be called 99% of the time.

[SHOXAAC]

I think calling it a "spike" is a stretch. I'm in agreement with Fever on his assessment of the play.

'Fever' = AndShock? :sarcasm:

Non-WSU team avys might get a bit confusing :whistle:

:lol:



This type of technical is similar to that of hanging extra on the rim. They both can be celebratory plays made as a positive reaction, but both are not allowed. You can't hang on a rim (assuming nobody is under you) and you can't spike a basketball that high. Intent is a non-factor. It was a stupid move by the Drake player. You just don't spike the ball like that.

From what it sounded like, Drake almost deserved to lose, the way they choked off a big lead like that. If anyone's to blame for this one it's either: the blowing away of a big lead late or Mr. Spiky.


I'd like an opinion from our in-house referees.

This rule is butchered all the time. 75% of the time players hang on the rim after a dunk. It is never called. If the refs are going to make this dead ball high dribble T on spiky, they should whistle players for hangin.

You're probably seeing the 75% of players hanging on the rim to avoid landing on other players or to somehow protect themselves. If that appears to be the intent, then it is ok and not a technical. If nobody's under the rim and a player hangs on it, it'll be called 99% of the time.

Then we are not watching the same sport. Im sure you and I alike have watched alot of college basketball in our day. I can only speak for me, but I see no T called for dunking, when the dunking player isn't hanging to protect himself.

[SHOXAAC]

...........uh.............if you know that it is a T sometimes, then don't do it. If you do it, just take your medicine like an adult. ...........What constitutes a bad call, would be when they flag you for bouncing the ball when you never actually bounced it at all.

That's a pretty black & white way to look at it. Because in the moment we call sport, there is no getting caught in that competitive moment huh. I was reasonably mature (just don't ask anyone who knows me though) as an 18-22 year old KID. Do you actually think the moment becomes slow motion and we get several seconds to think about what just happened? Believe it or not as a sports fan a BAD CALL is subjective. I know there are members on this board who are in the "official" profession (which I greatly respect). Don't know if that applies to you. If so, I can see how you might look at it this way. But the way 99% of fans that watch and root in sporting competition, a bad call is subjective and qualifies as prerequisite for being a fan IMO.

[Kung Wu]

I think calling it a "spike" is a stretch. I'm in agreement with Fever on his assessment of the play.

'Fever' = AndShock? :sarcasm:

Non-WSU team avys might get a bit confusing :whistle:

:lol:



This type of technical is similar to that of hanging extra on the rim. They both can be celebratory plays made as a positive reaction, but both are not allowed. You can't hang on a rim (assuming nobody is under you) and you can't spike a basketball that high. Intent is a non-factor. It was a stupid move by the Drake player. You just don't spike the ball like that.

From what it sounded like, Drake almost deserved to lose, the way they choked off a big lead like that. If anyone's to blame for this one it's either: the blowing away of a big lead late or Mr. Spiky.


I'd like an opinion from our in-house referees.

This rule is butchered all the time. 75% of the time players hang on the rim after a dunk. It is never called. If the refs are going to make this dead ball high dribble T on spiky, they should whistle players for hangin.

You're probably seeing the 75% of players hanging on the rim to avoid landing on other players or to somehow protect themselves. If that appears to be the intent, then it is ok and not a technical. If nobody's under the rim and a player hangs on it, it'll be called 99% of the time.

I gotta go with Fever on this one. I watch it all the time, and yes, you see the guy swing for a second, but generally you see him looking down while in the swing to see if it's okay to let go -- to me that's reasonable. When you don't see him look down or continue to hang after doing so, they throw the T.

[pinstripers]

No, I'm not an offical. "he didn't mean to do it" would excuse every call, every time, though, would it not?

[SHOXAAC]

No, I'm not an offical. "he didn't mean to do it" would excuse every call, every time, though, would it not?

Your post just hit me as very black & white, which is not the nature of a typical fan watching sports. I'm not smart enough to get in every players head at the exact time they commited an infraction of the rules. I don't think it is a mater of "he didn't mean to do it," as much as he didn't believe his actions warrented the punishment." Your quote "if you know that is is a T sometimes, then don't do it, just take your medicine like an adult." Take your medicine like an adult...I didn't see the young man from Drake's reaction, but sounds like he didn't take his medicine like an adult I guess. Those that saw his reaction would be better judges than me.

[pinstripers]

Ya, prolly a black and white guy, I guess. I figure 71 in a 70 IS going over the speed limit. I'd hate to get a ticket for that, but it's hard to argue with one if you were going over the limit. I dunno if they should have called it or not, but it's always easier to blame somebody else than to take responsibility for your own actions. We all get to choose one of the following......

a. "he shouldn't have called that on me there"..............or
b. "I guess I shouldn't have slammed that ball down"

[SHOXAAC]

Ya, prolly a black and white guy, I guess. I figure 71 in a 70 IS going over the speed limit. I'd hate to get a ticket for that, but it's hard to argue with one if you were going over the limit. I dunno if they should have called it or not, but it's always easier to blame somebody else than to take responsibility for your own actions. We all get to choose one of the following......

a. "he shouldn't have called that on me there"..............or
b. "I guess I shouldn't have slammed that ball down"

I respect that pinstripers, I'm actually married to one, which is a little comical. Hey, good discussion though, thanks.
:wsu_posters:

[ShockerFever]

It is a judgment call. Therefore, it's not black and white and made at the discretion of the referee. He felt it was enough of a jolt that it warranted the technical.

And pinstripers is right, it has nothing to do with intent.

This is one of those instances where the player should have never let the ball be slammed in such a manner in the first place. Place the ball down, pump your fist in the air, and celebrate the win. He failed at Part A and it cost them.