Drake loses on a T to Weber State.

[rjl]

I think calling it a "spike" is a stretch. I'm in agreement with Fever on his assessment of the play.

'Fever' = AndShock? :sarcasm:

Non-WSU team avys might get a bit confusing :whistle:

:lol:



This type of technical is similar to that of hanging extra on the rim. They both can be celebratory plays made as a positive reaction, but both are not allowed. You can't hang on a rim (assuming nobody is under you) and you can't spike a basketball that high. Intent is a non-factor. It was a stupid move by the Drake player. You just don't spike the ball like that.

From what it sounded like, Drake almost deserved to lose, the way they choked off a big lead like that. If anyone's to blame for this one it's either: the blowing away of a big lead late or Mr. Spiky.


I'd like an opinion from our in-house referees.

A cursory glance at the current rules shows regulations regarding hanging on the rim, but it shows nothing regarding "spiking" the ball or any alternate wording of the same act.

So is it a delay of the game in not handing the ball directly to the official? If so, I call bull. He spiked the ball to himself as he was walking to the other end of the court. Players walk the ball to the other end of the court all the time before handing it to an official without a technical being called. Besides, the rules call for a warning upon the first infraction, and not a full on technical until the second. Rule 10, §6, Art. 1, subsection m.

Was it an "unsportsmanlike conduct" penalty? If so, I call bull. He barely "spiked" the ball, and once again it was to himself. It was really just a hard dribble in which the ball went several feet over his own head and came down right in front of him.

Either way, it certainly isn't enough to determine the outcome of a game. Officials should definitely not be interpreting the rules as broadly as they can so as to insert themselves into the game, especially when it results in determining the eventual winner.

Unless, of course, there's a rule specifically regarding "spiking" the ball, or another wording of the same act, that I didn't see in the few curious minutes I spent glancing through the rule book.

[ShockerFever]

You make a pretty good argument rjl and have me very close to changing my mind about the call. However, it is pretty common knowledge that you should never bounce the ball over your head in any type of a manner after a call or stop in action. While there is no "written rule", it's obviously up to the discretion of the ref to determine if some type of bad conduct has occurred.

I get the kid was excited but he has to just simply put the ball on the ground and then run around to the other end of the court. Since there is no "clear-cut" rule, you open yourself up to anything if you let the ball bounce that high and hard. That's why you don't let it happen in the first place.

Now granted, it was at the most inopportune moment, but the situation in the game can't be a factor in making a call. Whether there's 5 minutes left in the first half, 10 minutes left in the second half, or 5 seconds left in the game, if an official think it's a foul, he has to call it. Period.

[Aargh]

That's gonna get a T about every time.

Play was stopped. Refs will normally give a guy a break if he was going into a shooting motion and shoots after a whistle. That's probably considered a continuation of what the player had already committed to.

In this case the player was just holding the ball or dribbling down court. There was nothing he had committed to that could be continued. He certainly wasn't going to make that "dribble" as a basketball play.

I'm not an official and I'm not up on the rules, but from what I've observed, if a player bounces the ball off the court and it goes over his head after a whistle, it's a T every time.

Every time I've heard the "official" explanation, it's delay of game. It's probably more of a celebration T because it only delays the game about a second or two, but it is called.

[AndShock]

That's gonna get a T about every time.

Play was stopped. Refs will normally give a guy a break if he was going into a shooting motion and shoots after a whistle. That's probably considered a continuation of what the player had already committed to.

In this case the player was just holding the ball or dribbling down court. There was nothing he had committed to that could be continued. He certainly wasn't going to make that "dribble" as a basketball play.

I'm not an official and I'm not up on the rules, but from what I've observed, if a player bounces the ball off the court and it goes over his head after a whistle, it's a T every time.

Every time I've heard the "official" explanation, it's delay of game. It's probably more of a celebration T because it only delays the game about a second or two, but it is called.

I think EO spiked it against Newman, out of frustration to boot. Maybe they gave him a pass because it was an exhibition. And I've seen players shoot on the opposite basket after the refs blow the whistle and I've never seen them T'd up for it. Like I said, if there's a spike rule, I have no problem with it. But if the ref T'd him up for delay of game, then that is total BS.

[SoulStar]

I think calling it a "spike" is a stretch. I'm in agreement with Fever on his assessment of the play.

'Fever' = AndShock? :sarcasm:

Non-WSU team avys might get a bit confusing :whistle:

This

[SB Shock]

That's gonna get a T about every time.

Play was stopped. Refs will normally give a guy a break if he was going into a shooting motion and shoots after a whistle. That's probably considered a continuation of what the player had already committed to.

In this case the player was just holding the ball or dribbling down court. There was nothing he had committed to that could be continued. He certainly wasn't going to make that "dribble" as a basketball play.

I'm not an official and I'm not up on the rules, but from what I've observed, if a player bounces the ball off the court and it goes over his head after a whistle, it's a T every time.

Every time I've heard the "official" explanation, it's delay of game. It's probably more of a celebration T because it only delays the game about a second or two, but it is called.

I think EO spiked it against Newman, out of frustration to boot. Maybe they gave him a pass because it was an exhibition. And I've seen players shoot on the opposite basket after the refs blow the whistle and I've never seen them T'd up for it. Like I said, if there's a spike rule, I have no problem with it. But if the ref T'd him up for delay of game, then that is total BS.

.

Just because you have not seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Have you ever saw a player getting a T for patting another players head? Jamar Howard. Ever seen a crowd given a T for booing the Refs until last year had not seen that when the MVC refs threatened the fans.

The T could have also been given for unsportsmanlike conduct - if you look at the video it looks like the player is possibly saying something to another player - taunting?

Bottom-line as a player you don't do something so stupid at that point in the game. What is really being lost is that Drake was even in this position to be beat by Weber fricking State from the Big Sky Conference (one of the worst B-ball conferences).

[WuDrWu]

Bottom-line as a player you don't do something so stupid at that point in the game. What is really being lost is that Drake was even in this position to be beat by Weber fricking State from the Big Sky Conference (one of the worst B-ball conferences).

I don't really have a dog in this hunt, but just to throw a couple of things in here. While the Big Sky is a bottom rung conference, Weber State is not a horrible program. They've won 20+ 3 of the last 4 years and are consistently one of the top 2 or 3 teams in their conference. They were also competitive against Utah State and Arizona State this season.

Not that you want to get beat by a Big Sky program, and yes Drake has coaching issues, but I won't be dismissing the Geese just because of a couple of 40 point blowouts in the non-conference slate. I like their talent, I don't think much of the coach's preparation. They'll beat some teams they shouldn't.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming.

[Born2Shock]

Do we know that there wasnt a warning issued earlier in the game to Drake or Spiky for something similar? If one was, it makes the call pretty easy for the ref.

[MadDog]

Brutal call. I've never seen that called a technical. He wasn't mad, he wasn't taunting anyone. He was just fired up and bounced the ball a little to hard. To give the game away on a call like that is ridiculous.

[ShockTalk]

Brutal call. I've never seen that called a technical. He wasn't mad, he wasn't taunting anyone. He was just fired up and bounced the ball a little to hard. To give the game away on a call like that is ridiculous.

I agree here. Somewhere along the line, refs need to understand the spirit of certain rules. In the case of spiking a ball, was it aimed to show up a ref, did it actually impeed the progress of the game, did the player confront or visibly show up an opponent, did the player lose control of the ball or his emotions.

In this case, the player was in agreement with the refs, was walking to the other end of the court where FTs were to be shot, there was no, zero delay of game, never lost control of the ball, did not look at, confront, or taunt another player, and appeared surprisingly calm given how some of his teammates were acting. All this, added to the fact that the call made 39 minutes, 58 (or so) seconds of playing this game moot, should have had the ref(s) use better judgment.

Now if ANY spiking of the ball is specifically and clearly spelled out in the rules or any other rule clearly violated (where no judgment on the ref is allowed to be used), then the call was justified.

[SHOXAAC]

I think calling it a "spike" is a stretch. I'm in agreement with Fever on his assessment of the play.

'Fever' = AndShock? :sarcasm:

Non-WSU team avys might get a bit confusing :whistle:

:lol:



This type of technical is similar to that of hanging extra on the rim. They both can be celebratory plays made as a positive reaction, but both are not allowed. You can't hang on a rim (assuming nobody is under you) and you can't spike a basketball that high. Intent is a non-factor. It was a stupid move by the Drake player. You just don't spike the ball like that.

From what it sounded like, Drake almost deserved to lose, the way they choked off a big lead like that. If anyone's to blame for this one it's either: the blowing away of a big lead late or Mr. Spiky.


I'd like an opinion from our in-house referees.

This rule is butchered all the time. 75% of the time players hang on the rim after a dunk. It is never called. If the refs are going to make this dead ball high dribble T on spiky, they should whistle players for hangin.

[Ricardo del Rio]

Really bad call.

Disagree. It was clear from the replay that the player well after the play spiked the ball. It was stupid thing for the player to do.

I'll post the same thing I posted on MVCfans.

If there's a rule that a spike is an automatic T, then it was the right call and I take back what I said. If it's not an automatic T, I don't see the difference between what the Drake player did and someone shooting a 3 pointer after the whistle blows.


That spike wasn't malicious at all and was basically the guy playing with the ball. I don't think that's enough to warrant giving the game to the other team.

It is automatic technical - doesn't matter what his intent was. It is out of the Refs hand once the Drake player spiked the b-ball.

What is the rule? Delay of game?

Deformation of ball.

[notquiteBWing]

I don't know if any of you remember the last minute of regulation of the KU - Memphis NC game?

CDR was fouled and missed both free throws.
Dozier grabbed the offensive rebound and passed it to derrick rose whom was fouled moments later and would eventually shoot free throws.

During the dead ball, CDR had the ball in his hands and slammed it down, it came back up and went 3-5 feet above his head.
It seemed like a mistake, like he meant ot slam it down and have it come straight back into his hands.

I remember the commentators saying that they were glad the refs didn't whistle for a T, saying (something along the lines of) "That small display of frustration shouldn't decide this game."

I'm just throwing that food for thought out there to be digested.

[Ashockalypse]

I have seen players including KU players spike in nonchalant fashion like he did with no call. That was just too MUCH officiating on something that was nothing.

[Kung Wu]

I can't help but feeling that we are being "sound-bited" by the slow motion and very short link that was posted.

Does anybody have a link to a full motion version that has the play before it and goes all the way to the free throws?