First Week of Practice

[Ashockalypse]

I could go either way on this one and I don't think anyone can say that Ellis can't have a breakout year whether it is now or next year.

[RoyalShock]

If Ellis redshirts, that also means we have no current scholarships available.

I wonder how much Ellis redshirting has to do with whether or not the coaching staff gets a commitment prior to the first game.

[wufan]

I agree. If the coaching staff gets "their guy" in the fall, that will make a major impact in the decision.

[SubGod22]

Ellis will either be a bench warming SR this year or a bench warming SR next year. I like the kid and wish him well, but as I've said before, I'd rather just take my chances and give experience to Hamilton and White next year. Ellis would probably play a little more next season, but I'd expect the other two to earn playing time over him. That's what would be best for both of them and the program.

Lets just sign Nickerson and put all of this to bed.

[pinstripers]

If Ellis does RS this year, he'll start next year, and Hamilton will get some game experience this seaon. I agree that if HCGM can get a special player this fall, that will end this scenario.

[Good News]

I'm of the belief that all big men with the athletic ability and size of Orupke can learn all the offensive skills they will need to be a force in the paint. There's is less of a finesse game and more of a strength and speed one. You cannot teach height, it's hard to teach speed, and it takes a lot of work to develop strength. He's got all the hardware; just needs to get the software fulling installed.

Any more general platitudes needed to assuage your fears?

Agreed, here's some specificity:

Word on the street is that one of EO's countrymen lives in Houston and gives lessons. Maybe EO can reach out next summer...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Video-Hakeem-Olajuwon-teaches-Dwight-Howard?urn=nba-275104

[WSUwatcher]

If Ellis redshirts, that also means we have no current scholarships available.

I wonder how much Ellis redshirting has to do with whether or not the coaching staff gets a commitment prior to the first game.

Bing! We have a winner. If Keaton Miles had said yes, or if Victor Nickerson does -- and everyone who is committed actually signs -- Ellis will probably play to clear space. Not much, I suspect; there aren't enough minutes, and Hamilton needs the experience more. On the other hand, if the Shocks don't get a worthwhile commitment, he may well sit in anticipation of being useful next year, which I believe he would be.

[SHOXAAC]

I hope AE redshirting doesn't come down to signing a quality player like Nickerson this fall. Remember, this year is set up to be very special for our Shockers. Assuming we win around 25 games, win the MVC regular season & STL and win a game or two in the dance, won't playing at WSU now have more appeal for any quality 6-8, 230 poind power forward? How many of us are excited about the prospects of Joe Ragland and Ben Smith? There is more than one Ragland/Smith PF out there that will be available this spring. With the season we are anticipating, let's not handcuff ourselves and settle for AE as our PF next season. We are better than that. I am hoping AE and his wife are looking forward to Aaron starting his career after college this coming May. With a young mouth to feed now, is playing college basketball for a 5th year really a priority? Just sayin!!!

[The Mad Hatter]

I hope AE redshirting doesn't come down to signing a quality player like Nickerson this fall. Remember, this year is set up to be very special for our Shockers. Assuming we win around 25 games, win the MVC regular season & STL and win a game or two in the dance, won't playing at WSU now have more appeal for any quality 6-8, 230 poind power forward? How many of us are excited about the prospects of Joe Ragland and Ben Smith? There is more than one Ragland/Smith PF out there that will be available this spring. With the season we are anticipating, let's not handcuff ourselves and settle for AE as our PF next season. We are better than that. I am hoping AE and his wife are looking forward to Aaron starting his career after college this coming May. With a young mouth to feed now, is playing college basketball for a 5th year really a priority? Just sayin!!!

Well, since we will be loaded with talent for the 2011-2012 season, with the only question mark on the squad being a lack of experience at the power forward, yes I can see how having a 6-9 PF with 5 years in the system would be a valuable thing. No, I wouldn't like to waste that season because we are waiting for a freshman or JUCO transfer to adjust to the Division I game.

You have made it perfectly clear that you fail to see any ability in Aaron. Others among us (and Marshall for that matter) have noticed that Aaron does a very good job doing the little things like screening to make the offense work which never shows up in the stats, and that his biggest problem has not been his physical ability, but whether or not he plays with confidence.

Having an experienced power forward who knows the offense and defense is precisely what we will be lacking in 2011-2012, and that season is just as important as the current one. If we do great things this year, but fall flat in 2011-2012, it will hurt our ability to build the program for the long term.

[SubGod22]

Ellis won't cause or save us from falling flat next year.

[The Mad Hatter]

Ellis won't cause or save us from falling flat next year.

By himself, no. But the major question mark will be power forward on what will otherwise be a loaded team. Clearly Marshall sees the potential value to shoring up that weakness by having someone who has been in the system 5 years rather than relying players with much less experience in the system.

Certainly, there is potential upside and downside to redshirting Aaron, but the idea that a freshman or JUCO player would be inherently better for the program is, in my mind, laughable. It is easy to tout the greatness of players that have never played DI ball and denigrate those who have, but actually having played at this level and bringing that experience to the table does count for something.

[SubGod22]

And sometimes experience can be over played in certain situations. I still say we're better off as a program going with Hamilton and White at PF next year over keeping Ellis around. There are things that Ellis would provide next years team, but I don't feel it's significant enough to keep him around. I'd rather use his 'ship to bring in a FR of some kind. Even if that FR were to RS or be at another position. I think it would be a better use of the spot.

Maybe Ellis redshirts and proves me wrong. But Ellis as a starter has never made me feel great about where we were. If he hasn't tapped into his potential at this point I say we move on and wish him and his family well.

[SHOXAAC]

Ellis won't cause or save us from falling flat next year.

By himself, no. But the major question mark will be power forward on what will otherwise be a loaded team. Clearly Marshall sees the potential value to shoring up that weakness by having someone who has been in the system 5 years rather than relying players with much less experience in the system.

Certainly, there is potential upside and downside to redshirting Aaron, but the idea that a freshman or JUCO player would be inherently better for the program is, in my mind, laughable. It is easy to tout the greatness of players that have never played DI ball and denigrate those who have, but actually having played at this level and bringing that experience to the table does count for something.

There will be a question mark whether AE redshirts or not. Hamilton & White playing the PF position qualifies as a question mark due to lack of experience. We know what to expect from Aaron...3 points & 3 rebounds per game if he gets 18 minutes. If he gets 25 minutes he might stat out at 4/4. If he has a monster season maybe 7/5. That's what he is capable of. I would rather have an additional PF question mark in a freshman or juco player that HCGM recruits. Ask ourselves this question. Given what Aaron brought to the table coming out of HS, would he be on the radar of this coaching staff? Does the staff have a significant better pool of talent to choose from?

[The Mad Hatter]

And sometimes experience can be over played in certain situations. I still say we're better off as a program going with Hamilton and White at PF next year over keeping Ellis around. There are things that Ellis would provide next years team, but I don't feel it's significant enough to keep him around. I'd rather use his 'ship to bring in a FR of some kind. Even if that FR were to RS or be at another position. I think it would be a better use of the spot.

Maybe Ellis redshirts and proves me wrong. But Ellis as a starter has never made me feel great about where we were. If he hasn't tapped into his potential at this point I say we move on and wish him and his family well.

Combined Division I games played by Hamilton and White = 0.

I'm high on the potential of both of these guys too, but even counting what little playing time Hamilton will get this year, that is a whole lot of leaning on potential and very little leaning on experience. Redshirting Aaron isn't inherently a better solution that using that scholarship elsewhere, but there are also some pretty obvious advantages to having a 5th year senior to counteract our lack of experience at that position that no recruit, freshman or JUCO, can bring to the table.

[The Mad Hatter]

Ellis won't cause or save us from falling flat next year.

By himself, no. But the major question mark will be power forward on what will otherwise be a loaded team. Clearly Marshall sees the potential value to shoring up that weakness by having someone who has been in the system 5 years rather than relying players with much less experience in the system.

Certainly, there is potential upside and downside to redshirting Aaron, but the idea that a freshman or JUCO player would be inherently better for the program is, in my mind, laughable. It is easy to tout the greatness of players that have never played DI ball and denigrate those who have, but actually having played at this level and bringing that experience to the table does count for something.

There will be a question mark whether AE redshirts or not. Hamilton & White playing the PF position qualifies as a question mark due to lack of experience. We know what to expect from Aaron...3 points & 3 rebounds per game if he gets 18 minutes. If he gets 25 minutes he might stat out at 4/4. If he has a monster season maybe 7/5. That's what he is capable of. I would rather have an additional PF question mark in a freshman or juco player that HCGM recruits. Ask ourselves this question. Given what Aaron brought to the table coming out of HS, would he be on the radar of this coaching staff? Does the staff have a significant better pool of talent to choose from?

Well I'd say that A) Marshall's consideration of the redshirt option suggests that he thinks that Aaron would provide a contribution to an inexperienced group and B) I think that Marshall is in a far better position than we are to know whether we are recruiting players that would have more impact in their first year than Aaron would in his 5th.

Aaron doesn't have to be better in his 5th year than a potential recruit would be over the course of their career, just better than they would be in their first year. Why? Because if Aaron gives us a better chance to win in 2011-2012 than the recruit would, it elevates the stock of the program and gives us a chance to recruit an even better player for 2012-2013.