A couple of questions for the people who were around...

[Maggie]

How did he make the decision to hire Cohen?

I believe that Cohen was Folger's recommendation. Folger was a pretty good coach so liked or not I'm sure his opinion did carry weight.

I think most people’s negative perception of Folger was a reaction to the way he carried himself than anything else.

[Aargh]

This is getting a little out of hand for something that happened about 40 years ago. The situation has changed quite a bit since then.

I don't know whether WSU ever had a Dept. of Medicine, or a School of Medicine or whatever it was called, but I do remember sitting in Dr. Cramer Reed's office and discussing transferring from the school I was in at WSU to WSU's School of (Something) that was to be located at the current KU facility. I am positive WSU was at least EXPECTING to have the facility and offer medicine-related courses.

A year later Dr. Cramer Reed was working for KU. He had spear-headed the entire operation, arranged the facilities, curriculum - everything and in one stroke of a pen he was suddenly an employee of KU and the work he had done while on WSU's payroll belonged to KU.

I'm not truly in the "I hate KU" camp, but KU's treatment of WSU in WSU's early days in the state system was abominable. It left quite an impression to be a student at the school that was clearly getting second-rate treatment from the state.

At the time, there was no attempt by the KU faction to hide their involvement in having WSU slighted by the State. In fact, it seemed to be a point of pride for the KU group to kick the lowly stepchild around the block if WSU tried to improve anything at WSU.

[jcdshocker]

Also, I'd like to know more about what happened post-Lew. Who hired Tom Shupe, and where did he come from? How did he make the decision to hire Cohen?

There must have been some pressure to continue Fogler's regime, but if Wichitans were so put off by Fogler, why did that carry so much weight?

As I remember, there were like 12 or 13 division 1 head coaching openings when Fogler announced he was leaving for Vandy, so there was a lot of competing schools looking for coaches. Cohen, a career assistant, got promoted to try and keep the program going. It didn't look like a good hire from the start and it obviously wasn't. We needed some stability since Eddie used us as a stepping stone after 3 years of head coaching experience. I think Cohen was the one that said Adrian Griffin was not big enough to play Div I. After Seton Hall I think he had close to 10 years of collecting NBA paychecks. That really got us to the low point in the program.

I really thought Scott Thompson would be the one to lead us back to prominence. He was a nice guy, but really struggled recruiting.

[ISASO]

Let's not forget Mike Dart's threats to the program unless Cohen was hired. It's a case study in why boosters shouldn't run the athletic department.

[Anthroshock]

I don't know why but I would guess its something the students started and it stuck. The singing of the alma mater is a fairly new tradition, which I think was suggested or started by Shirley Beggs. That tradition certainly doesn't date back to the early 70s (I'd say late 90s) and I have never heard, nor had the thought even entered my mind, frankly, that it had anything remotely to do with the plane crash.

I know they have been playing the alma mater since the mid-90's. At that time there was maybe three rows of students in the section and at most 10 rows for big games. I think yelling "Black" comes from one of the fraternities. I believe the Sig Eps and perhaps the Phi Delts were the ones that got the "black" started as well as the clapping motions that go with Dudley Doo Rite.

[WuDrWu]

Let's not forget Mike Dart's threats to the program unless Cohen was hired. It's a case study in why boosters shouldn't run the athletic department.

Especially cheating boosters.

[boyshocker]

The KC Star article kicked everything off, I still have a copy of it somewhere and will try and find it.

I do not believe it is a urban legend that WSU was kept down by the big boys in the area. Had a relative in the NCAA office in KC at the time (Mizzou grad) who always felt there was a vendetta against WSU but could never get any concrete evidence. He was just out of college and busy protecting his own butt.

[1972Shocker]

Regarding Eddie Fogler I don't remember so much that Shocker fans did not warm up to Eddie. I think generally they liked Eddie (at least while he was here). I think it was more an issue that Eddie (and perhaps even more so Mrs. Folger) never really warmed up to Wichita.

No question the hiring decisions between Fogler and Turgeon were all disasters although on paper Scott Thompson's hiring seemed pretty good. (Similar to Jane Albright's hiring for the Women's program).

Not sure how much our financial situation contributed to our difficulties, but we were in a big hole when we dropped football and it took a long time to dig out of that hole. Except for Baseball our facilities went to into general decline during that time period also.

No question the President Beggs and Jim Schaus deserve credit for bringing strong leadership and fiscal management to the Athletic Department. Hopefully, we can sustain and build on what they have established.

The "Black" thing seems to be a relatively recent deal. Not sure there is really any significance to it. Personally, I could do without it. Just doesn't seem to fit IMO.

[shockball]

How did he make the decision to hire Cohen?

I believe that Cohen was Folger's recommendation. Folger was a pretty good coach so liked or not I'm sure his opinion did carry weight.

I think most people’s negative perception of Folger was a reaction to the way he carried himself than anything else.

When Eddie moved on Cohen had the support of abig contributor. So our AD figured out if Cohen was hired he wouldn't have to work.

The NCAA findings cost Bredehoft his job. Rightfully so. A couple of years ago Cleo Littleton ran into him. Ted called him Stallworth. :(

[Maggie]

How did he make the decision to hire Cohen?

I believe that Cohen was Folger's recommendation. Folger was a pretty good coach so liked or not I'm sure his opinion did carry weight.

I think most people’s negative perception of Folger was a reaction to the way he carried himself than anything else.

When Eddie moved on Cohen had the support of abig contributor. So our AD figured out if Cohen was hired he wouldn't have to work.

The NCAA findings cost Bredehoft his job. Rightfully so. A couple of years ago Cleo Littleton fan into him. Ted called him Stallworth.
:(

Interesting, I was still in high school when Folger left – so I don’t know all the ins and outs. By not “working” I assume you mean he (the Athletic Director) didn’t have to work all that hard at fundraising. I think that is swell.

As a result of that AD’s lamentable decision I had to live through the Cohen/Thompson years as an undergrad. That said, I did like Thompson a lot - as a person – and he did have a solid resume coming out of Rice. So I could never get too angry Thompson was hired – in the condition Cohen left the program you have to take a risk on a person you think is up and coming. Some work out (Turgeon); some don’t (Thompson).

As an aside, I could distinguish between Littleton and Stallworth at the age of 5. :roll:

[19SHOCKER76]

How did he make the decision to hire Cohen?

I believe that Cohen was Folger's recommendation. Folger was a pretty good coach so liked or not I'm sure his opinion did carry weight.

I think most people’s negative perception of Folger was a reaction to the way he carried himself than anything else.

When Eddie moved on Cohen had the support of abig contributor. So our AD figured out if Cohen was hired he wouldn't have to work.

The NCAA findings cost Bredehoft his job. Rightfully so. A couple of years ago Cleo Littleton fan into him. Ted called him Stallworth.
:(

Interesting, I was still in high school when Folger left – so I don’t know all the ins and outs. By not “working” I assume you mean he (the Athletic Director) didn’t have to work all that hard at fundraising. I think that is swell.

As a result of that AD’s lamentable decision I had to live through the Cohen/Thompson years as an undergrad. That said, I did like Thompson a lot - as a person – and he did have a solid resume coming out of Rice. So I could never get too angry Thompson was hired – in the condition Cohen left the program you have to take a risk on a person you think is up and coming. Some work out (Turgeon); some don’t (Thompson).

As an aside, I could distinguish between Littleton and Stallworth at the age of 5. :roll:

Don't be too hard on old Ted, I expect he is bumping 80 by now.

[shockball]

I could have been more clear. The AD did not have to hire a search committee and interview people if he just Cohen. So that is what he did.

[shocks771]

I don't know why but I would guess its something the students started and it stuck. The singing of the alma mater is a fairly new tradition, which I think was suggested or started by Shirley Beggs. That tradition certainly doesn't date back to the early 70s (I'd say late 90s) and I have never heard, nor had the thought even entered my mind, frankly, that it had anything remotely to do with the plane crash.

I know they have been playing the alma mater since the mid-90's. At that time there was maybe three rows of students in the section and at most 10 rows for big games. I think yelling "Black" comes from one of the fraternities. I believe the Sig Eps and perhaps the Phi Delts were the ones that got the "black" started as well as the clapping motions that go with Dudley Doo Rite.

I was a student in the late 90's and the yelling "Black" during the alma mater did come from one of the fraternities. It was the SAE house that started that as well as the clapping motions to Dudley Doo Rite. The SAE's were always there in the first few rows back in the mid-late 90's even when the team was god awful.

[Maggie]

I could have been more clear. The AD did not have to hire a search committee and interview people if he just Cohen. So that is what he did.

Okie dokie [sigh]. Oh well, water under the bridge.

[Maggie]

I don't know why but I would guess its something the students started and it stuck. The singing of the alma mater is a fairly new tradition, which I think was suggested or started by Shirley Beggs. That tradition certainly doesn't date back to the early 70s (I'd say late 90s) and I have never heard, nor had the thought even entered my mind, frankly, that it had anything remotely to do with the plane crash.

I know they have been playing the alma mater since the mid-90's. At that time there was maybe three rows of students in the section and at most 10 rows for big games. I think yelling "Black" comes from one of the fraternities. I believe the Sig Eps and perhaps the Phi Delts were the ones that got the "black" started as well as the clapping motions that go with Dudley Doo Rite.

I was a student in the late 90's and the yelling "Black" during the alma mater did come from one of the fraternities. It was the SAE house that started that as well as the clapping motions to Dudley Doo Rite. The SAE's were always there in the first few rows back in the mid-late 90's even when the team was god awful.

:yes: