1240 KU - WSU DEBATE

[Maggie]

Also, if there was no point to the discussion because there is a lack of interest then why is there a need for a justification? There would be no reason for the “real” reason.

It will just end up like last year and the year before. And then 6 months from now it will all be forgotten and we'll be right back here again.

Chris

Why?

You wrote there are reasons for this other than what has been already mentioned in this thread.

“No one cares” is not a valid justification - you care and you are somebody.

[owenc]

There are a lot of KU fans that would rather see KU play the Shox in contrast to the Alcorn States of the world.

Agreed. My only correction would be that my guess is it is most KU fans. Certainly season ticket holders. Alcorn State just isn't a very interesting game.

If the Shox and KU DID play during the regular season, I'd welcome a 3:2 (Allen, Koch, KC, Intrust, Allen), and see nothing wrong with WSU accepting it.

The proposal the Eagle made yesterday had them playing everywhere but Koch. Frankly I don't think that is fair but that may be how it has to happen. Given the bad blood in the series I think the Koch (well Levitt) thing may be much of the holdup.

Chris

[Maggie]

Given the bad blood in the series I think the Koch (well Levitt) thing may be much of the holdup.

Chris

Why?

By the way, I happen to think the “bad blood” is an important factor.

[owenc]

Also, if there was no point to the discussion because there is a lack of interest then why is there a need for a justification? There would be no reason for the “real” reason.

It will just end up like last year and the year before. And then 6 months from now it will all be forgotten and we'll be right back here again.

Chris

Why?

Very good question but I have no idea why. If I had known ahead of time I wouldn't have bothered before either.

You wrote there are reasons for this other than what has been already mentioned in this thread.

“No one cares” is not a valid justification - you care and you are somebody.

Believe it or not I do remember the reasons. So while I do care I also don't need me to rehash it all for myself.

My guess is others do as well. The only person asking is you and you started this whole thing by saying you didn't care enough to go back and look so why do you keep asking?

Chris

[RoyalShock]

owenc, you made a claim a coupe of pages back about KU losing $1million if they trade a home game for an away game, and I get so sick of hearing it because it's an utter lie.

KU will charge the exact same amount for their season ticket package with or without that one home game every 2-3 years. The only revenue they would lose is concession and arena advertising and merchandise. The TV revenue will still be there, as well.

WSU doesn't charge less because they have 1-2 fewer home games. Often times season tix are paid for before the schedule is even final.

It is completely disingenuous to take total revenue and divide by the number of home games and say you stand to lose that much. That's what Perkins and Self are doing.

[Maggie]

Believe it or not I do remember the reasons. So while I do care I also don't need me to rehash it all for myself.

My guess is others do as well. The only person asking is you and you started this whole thing by saying you didn't care enough to go back and look so why do you keep asking?

Chris

It is not all about you owenc. I wrote I was not inclined to go back and peruse your old posts. Call me curious but lazy. I am interested in your point of view believe it or not (although I am beginning to question whether I should be).

[MTXE]

It isn't like there has some big stop and start over time. That one series was started when KU was at its weakest historically and extended for 10 years (missing one year which was the year KU won the national championship) and ended just when KU was reaching its strongest.

Of course KU was at its weakest historically when they played us except for the year that they won the National Championship. Do you even listen to yourself?

What? This makes no sense.

Conference regular season champions: 1986, 1991, 1992, 1993. There are many periods in KU's history where they were weaker. KU is not going to schedule a series with WSU if they think there is a slight chance they will not dominate.

They know what Bradley did to them in 2006 in the NCAA's. What would happen to them at Koch would probably be a similar result.

[tw805]

There really isn't anyone on here arguing that this is anything but money and/or guaranteed wins, right? I mean their athletic department has explicitly said as much. They will not play a game away from home, unless it gets them national TV dollars. Even then they have to think about it.

Self was on the radio defending his non-conference schedule two days ago. He said TWO true road games were enough for the entire non-conference schedule. If you can do it and are willing, good for you. It takes something to get there. But how about challenging your kids once in a while for their own long-term benefit?

[owenc]

owenc, you made a claim a coupe of pages back about KU losing $1million if they trade a home game for an away game, and I get so sick of hearing it because it's an utter lie.

KU will charge the exact same amount for their season ticket package with or without that one home game every 2-3 years. The only revenue they would lose is concession and arena advertising and merchandise. The TV revenue will still be there, as well.

WSU doesn't charge less because they have 1-2 fewer home games. Often times season tix are paid for before the schedule is even final.

It is completely disingenuous to take total revenue and divide by the number of home games and say you stand to lose that much. That's what Perkins and Self are doing.

Well I can't say how WSU does it but KU definitely charges more for each home game. In fact, until this year it was a set amount for each game (this year they went to variable pricing per game). Two years ago when they added two more home games the price went up $110 (2 X $55 which was the per game price at the time). And it isn't just up. Several years ago they had one game less and it went down $40 (the price at the time).

So yes, one less game at home is definitely less season ticket revenue. Now with variable pricing it would depend on the game how much. Alcorn State brought in $500,000. Michigan brought in $1.6 million.

Chris

[ShockerFever]

Given the bad blood in the series I think the Koch (well Levitt) thing may be much of the holdup.

This gets so GD annoying everytime YOU bring it up. It's complete BS. It's just another excuse. I bet Self doesn't even know about the "bad blood" you always cry home about. It's such a pathetic cop-out.


In actuality, KU truly fears that they would lose to WSU. That's why they couldn't even accept a one-time game in Lawrence or KC on ESPN. We're not even talking about a home game here for WSU. We're talking about one game period in KU's neck of the woods.

If KU wasn't afraid of WSU, they would end this garbage and play 'em. And KU shouldn't have to worry about losing to lowly ol' WSU because KU is FAR superior than WSU. They aren't even in the same ballpark so they shouldn't even entertain that possibility.

It's become more than just basketball to KU. For Texas Tech, West Virginia, etc, it's just basketball. For KU, it's not. Simple as that.

[owenc]

There really isn't anyone on here arguing that this is anything but money and/or guaranteed wins, right?

Well I think there are actually two arguments going on. As far as why KU doesn't schedule more away non-conference games then yes I think it is about money/wins (mostly money). But in the case of WSU I think it is about more than that.

Self was on the radio defending his non-conference schedule two days ago. He said TWO true road games were enough for the entire non-conference schedule. If you can do it and are willing, good for you. It takes something to get there. But how about challenging your kids once in a while for their own long-term benefit?

I agree. The money is crazy big (we're probably talking $2 million a game now) but I think there is also something for challenging a team early.

That's why there has been such a rise in this fake pre-season tournaments (like the one KU played last year and WSU played this year). They get to do a game or two against real competition on a neutral AND they get to schedule two more home games. Not the best competition-wise but they get to play someone at least and still bank the cash at home.

Chris

[ShockerFever]

One thing you can count on:

Anytime a WSU-KU topic surfaces, owenc is here in 5.5 seconds. It's like he's just waiting for it...

Seems a bit weird..

[owenc]

[quote="ShockerFever"]

In actuality, KU truly fears that they would lose to WSU. That's why they couldn't even accept a one-time game in Lawrence or KC on ESPN. We're not even talking about a home game here for WSU. We're talking about one game period in KU's neck of the woods.

If KU wasn't afraid of WSU, they would end this garbage and play 'em. And KU shouldn't have to worry about losing to lowly ol' WSU because KU is FAR superior than WSU. They aren't even in the same ballpark so they shouldn't even entertain that possibility.

KU doesn't play 400 division schools every year. Are they afraid of them too? Why aren't they afraid of Tennessee or UCLA?

There is just this assumption here that KU and WSU are some sort of natural game and that just because it doesn't happen that means KU is afraid of WSU.

Why should KU play WSU? Other than the fact they are barely in the same state there just isn't any natural reason. They aren't in the same conference, historically they've never played each other other than for a brief period in the 80s and early 90s.

It just isn't a given that they should play. KU doesn't play Idaho State either.

Chris

[KC Shox]

Are we back at this again? The horse has been dead 10 fold already. It ain't ever gonna happen so get over it!

[owenc]

One thing you can count on:

Anytime a WSU-KU topic surfaces, owenc is here in 5.5 seconds. It's like he's just waiting for it...

Seems a bit weird..

I'm here every day and do post occasionally on a variety of topics.

I just happen to know/care a lot more about this topic than most. Most of the threads here I really don't feel like I'm qualified to comment very intelligently on so I don't. Those that I do know about I do.

How is that weird?

Chris