1240 KU - WSU DEBATE

[owenc]

While I hate ku, and their fans even more, keep in mind that its not just WSU that they're afraid to play. Out of conference, unless they have to, they wont play ANYONE that has the slightest chance of beating them.

Seriously? I mean come on, I realize that facts aren't exactly welcome here but come on.

Washington
Syracuse
Umass
Arizona
Michigan State
Memphis
UCLA
Michigan
Cal
Temple
Tennessee

These are no one? Now granted some of the "good" teams they scheduled for this year aren't having the best year this year but that was hardly known when the games were scheduled.

[WuDrWu]

Bill Self has been on record that he won't play WSU because of the potential fan backlash if they lost to us. I'd say that it won't happen for precisely the reasons stated here.

:good: +1


I actually have a ton of respect for Coach Self. He is a great recruiter and a fantastic, not just really good, coach.

He's bigger than that, or at least he should be. College basketball SHOULD be about games like this, but alas they aren't.


It's too bad.

[SpanglerFan316]

Seriously, are we the only MVC team that doesn't play in state D 1 schools?

And WSU is the only NCAA Division I or Division II team in the state that KU doesn't play.

I'd love to see it happen but no way does it and not for the reasons stated here.

\

Who cares about "Division II"? D2 games don't count in RPI and most "ratings" only list the record against D1 teams. I guess you forgot to include "state high school teams" in your list.

[SpanglerFan316]

While I hate ku, and their fans even more, keep in mind that its not just WSU that they're afraid to play. Out of conference, unless they have to, they wont play ANYONE that has the slightest chance of beating them.

Seriously? I mean come on, I realize that facts aren't exactly welcome here but come on.

Washington
Syracuse
Umass
Arizona
Michigan State
Memphis
UCLA
Michigan
Cal
Temple
Tennessee

These are no one? Now granted some of the "good" teams they scheduled for this year aren't having the best year this year but that was hardly known when the games were scheduled.

Washington? Doesn't this team define "overrated"? Cal? :lol:

[owenc]

Who cares about "Division II"? D2 games don't count in RPI and most "ratings" only list the record against D1 teams.

Yea, because there really is no stigma about losing to a Division II team.

My point is that if they play everyone else and won't play WSU then it is something specific about WSU. That's my only point.

You can make up whatever you want about what those reasons are but KU plays about everyone small, large, good bad. Just not WSU.

[Steeleshocker]

owenc,

Every single one of those games would not look like a "bad loss" if it were to happen. Each team carries some brand-name recognition, even if their team isn't all that spectacular.

What I think the point should be is that they don't play road games in non-con unless it's a big huge top 25 matchup on ESPN, and they don't play teams from smaller conferences that could have a chance to beat them and post the dreaded "bad loss" tag on them.

In my opinion, it's stupid. A loss to WSU is not going to keep KU out of the tournament. A loss to Gardner-Webb wouldn't keep KU out of the tournament. As long as KU won their fair share of games during a season, they will have no trouble making the tourney, even with a "bad loss."


What Self is worried about is the backlash from his own fans for losing to WSU. Self is a classy guy, and I have a lot of respect for him, but he wants to avoid rocking the boat at KU.

EDIT:

To comment on your second point, owenc. KU isn't even remotely worried about losing to any of the Div II schools in Kansas. They pose no threat at all. KU avoids teams that actually are good enough to beat them on any given night. The Div II schools aren't that good. WSU is that good.

[Maggie]

I'd love to see it happen but no way does it and not for the reasons stated here.

Okey-dokey. Lay some “facts” on me, brother.

[WuDrWu]

Wow! I hope the "Dr" in the middle of your name doesn't stand for doctorate or MD. A colorfully urban vernacular you are displaying there son.. :(

Are there any admins on this website?

Get off your high horse. We all know you aren't new here. Regardless of who you "used" to be, my guess is you've been a lot worse than my 2 posts.

I'm sure that SB will either give me a time out, ban me or publicly chastize me, and that's fine. I am man enough to accept any punishment whether or not I think it's fair. However, for you of all people to feign innocence and outrage at my comments is frankly beyond annoying.

[The Mad Hatter]

Who cares about "Division II"? D2 games don't count in RPI and most "ratings" only list the record against D1 teams.

Yea, because there really is no stigma about losing to a Division II team.

My point is that if they play everyone else and won't play WSU then it is something specific about WSU. That's my only point.

You can make up whatever you want about what those reasons are but KU plays about everyone small, large, good bad. Just not WSU.

Aside from ignoring what Bill Self has said on this issue, your argument is kind of pointless.

There are 3 Division I basketball programs in the state, one of them being KU themselves. Of the other two, they play one of them because the are in the same conference. The refuse to play the other Division I school.

They don't play a single game against another in state division I school voluntarily.

Division II and NAIA schools are a much lesser threat to beat you and are almost no threat to compete with you for recruits, so volunteering to bring them into your arena for an exhibition game means nothing to this discussion.

[owenc]

Every single one of those games would not look like a "bad loss" if it were to happen. Each team carries some brand-name recognition, even if their team isn't all that spectacular.

Agreed. My only point in posting that list was in reaction to someone saying the don't play "anyone". Those are someone.

What I think the point should be is that they don't play road games in non-con unless it's a big huge top 25 matchup on ESPN, and they don't play teams from smaller conferences that could have a chance to beat them and post the dreaded "bad loss" tag on them.

I'm sure there is some truth to this but I think the bigger issue here is $$$. When playing Oakland (a team that could definitely beat KU BTW) KU makes a million plus on a home game and 50K on an away game.

They want to play as many of their non-conference games at home as possible. The only way they are going someplace else is for a game they can get on ESPN.

[MTXE]

Bill Self is doing the exact same thing each and every one of you would do if you were receiving a 3 million dollar annual salary. Form your strategy around keeping the cash cow producing milk. I don't think losing to us would cost him any recruits, but it sure would make things difficult at the office for a while.

[owenc]

Aside from ignoring what Bill Self has said on this issue, your argument is kind of pointless.

I'm not ignoring it. I just don't know what he said. If someone can actually point me to what he said I'd be most appreciative. I just don't know what he said.

He's said recently he wanted to play WSU too but I don't believe that for a second so I'm interested in this other chicken quote.

Chris

[ShockCity]

Bill Self is doing the exact same thing each and every one of you would do if you were receiving a 3 million dollar annual salary. Form your strategy around keeping the cash cow producing milk. I don't think losing to us would cost him any recruits, but it sure would make things difficult at the office for a while.

You don't speak for me.

[MTXE]

They want to play as many of their non-conference games at home as possible. The only way they are going someplace else is for a game they can get on ESPN.

Bill Self was offered a game with WSU in Kansas City on ESPN. He refused. Trust me, you don't want to form an argument around the "we can't afford it" premise.

[owenc]

Of course it could be that Bill Self is just holding a grudge about not getting the WSU coaching job 8)

Chris