Shocks vs Roos Official Gameday Thread

[WstateU]

Stop it, all of you.

This seems appropriate for this thread...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnkefjCES-4&feature=related

[Shocker85]

Maybe it was a foul, maybe it wasn't.

When the play happened, I called a buddy who was watching the game and said, 'If that type of contact is a foul, then driving to the basket would be a foul 100 times a game." Someone else said it before in this thread.

Most of the time, it's a "no call". All we ask of the refs is for consistency. The big men are allowed to manhandle each other most of the time with no calls. Defensivly, guards are allowed a certain amount of bumping, checking, etc with no calls. When do they decide enough is enough?

If the push occurred, then why didn't the ref blow the whistle immediately when the contact in question occurred? Conversely, it seems like refs sometimes anticipate contact and we hear a whistle before we see the contact. That stuff is inconsistent and makes players and coaches upset with the refs.

I know there are some officials on here, and I don't mean to offend. The pace of basketball is tougher to officiate than any other sport and I couldn't do it. However, some officials need to be reminded that the game is being played by the players, not the officials.

--'85.

[SubGod22]

I agree with most everything you said. It comes down to consistency. And I've agreed with most who feel it probably should have been a no call. However, I can see the logic behind the explanation in that he passed on the first one and when Clev again gained an advantage by using his arm again he called it. The official in question would have been better off calling the first one in which it was clear to just about everyone that he gained an advantage.

Basketball isn't always easy to officiate. There are a lot of gray areas and judgement calls. Even moreso at the college level. Not all contact is a foul so each official has to look at what's going on and decide if a call needs to be made. And these are snap decisions as you pretty much have to make a decision almost immediately. However, a late whistle and a correct call is better than a quick whistle and a bad call. Like the Toure block in KC.

[ShockBand]

If you want to see major differences in how the game is called, dig out some video of 1980s Shocker games and watch how the bookends and X had to play. Those guys would have thrived in the more physical environment of today.

[ShockerFever]

no, they showed the instant replay, and I watched it 5 times. he had 2 hands on the ball when we went up to lean on him.

Before the lean-in, he pushed off. The ref who was there saw it. A ref on this board saw it. Others on this board saw it.

I already erased the game off of my DVR so I forgot, but when did the ref blow his whistle? When he "pushed off" or when he leaned into him? If he didn't blow the whistle during the push off, then that issue is irrelevant. That means the ref called it for the lean-in, which clearly Hannah didn't even touch the guy when doing so.

EDIT: I just saw 85's post referencing the exact same thing.

And I completely agree with 85. Having games being determined by free throw contests is extremely lame. It screams of "I want attention" from the referees. Take your damn money and run.

[SpanglerFan316]

no, they showed the instant replay, and I watched it 5 times. he had 2 hands on the ball when we went up to lean on him.

Before the lean-in, he pushed off. The ref who was there saw it. A ref on this board saw it. Others on this board saw it.

I already erased the game off of my DVR so I forgot, but when did the ref blow his whistle? When he "pushed off" or when he leaned into him? If he didn't blow the whistle during the push off, then that issue is irrelevant. That means the ref called it for the lean-in, which clearly Hannah didn't even touch the guy when doing so.

EDIT: I just saw 85's post referencing the exact same thing.

And I completely agree with 85. Having games being determined by free throw contests is extremely lame. It screams of "I want attention" from the referees. Take your damn money and run.

What did I say just before the start of the second half? Oh, yeah.

Let's leave the players off the court in the second half; the refs are the show. :-x

[RoyalShock]

Re-read ShockRef's account of the ref who made the call. It wasn't the push-off. It wasn't the lean-in. It was the combination, which I don't think anyone here has defended as the correct call. Even Sub said if the push-off wasn't enough to call the foul, he would have let it go.

The official, IMO, is wrong to say it was the same play. You can't physically push a guy off with one arm and jump into him while both hands are on the ball to shoot it, in one play, unless you're Superman. It was two separate instances and he combined the two to make his decision.

That sounds an awful lot like a "make-up" call to me. Miss the obvious call, then call something ticky-tack to compensate. And the implications, if that is acceptable way to officiate, are troubling.

[ShockerFever]

no, they showed the instant replay, and I watched it 5 times. he had 2 hands on the ball when we went up to lean on him.

Before the lean-in, he pushed off. The ref who was there saw it. A ref on this board saw it. Others on this board saw it.

I already erased the game off of my DVR so I forgot, but when did the ref blow his whistle? When he "pushed off" or when he leaned into him? If he didn't blow the whistle during the push off, then that issue is irrelevant. That means the ref called it for the lean-in, which clearly Hannah didn't even touch the guy when doing so.

EDIT: I just saw 85's post referencing the exact same thing.

And I completely agree with 85. Having games being determined by free throw contests is extremely lame. It screams of "I want attention" from the referees. Take your damn money and run.

What did I say just before the start of the second half? Oh, yeah.

Let's leave the players off the court in the second half; the refs are the show. :-x

Exactly.

[Aargh]

Why don't we just do what the players do. Accept the calls that are made and move on.

It doesn't matter if it was the worst call in the world or the best call in the world, the call was made and you, me, the players, the coaches, and everyone else in the world who cares in any way, has to accept it and move on.

When the first perfect human is made, let me know. Until then, humans are going to make mistakes and humans are the ones calling basketball games.

Basketball is a very fast-paced game with thousands of situations that referees have to evaluate in every game. There are going to be mistakes made and sometimes an official's judgement of what should be called will not agree with yours.

Live with it. Or take up knitting. I understand there hasn't been a bad officiating call in knitting in years.

[ShockerFever]

I've moved on but then again Aargh, we aren't players and last time I checked this was a *message board* so what gives?

It was a horrible call and those referees shouldn't even be doing JUCO games.

I get the whole "human element" in referees and everything, but this was constant bad officiating. There's a difference. It was horrible to watch if, you in fact, watched it.

If you couldn't make out a difference between that game and any other game, then there's no point in even discussing it. This is the first game of the year where officiating has been significantly questioned (and it wasn't even after a loss where it's typically expected). After 9 games, this must be a new SN record.

[Aargh]

The officiaating was weak. The officiating in the Texas Southern game was weak. I don't blame their coach for getting T'd up.

There's nothing we can do about bad officiating. Marshall can do things and I'm confident he's doing what he can.

I don't mind hearing complaints about officiating, but once the point has been made that someone disagrees with a call or thought the refs were horrible, I understand. I don't need to read the same thing 5 times over the next 3 days to understand.

[ShockRef]

Why don't we just do what the players do. Accept the calls that are made and move on.

It doesn't matter if it was the worst call in the world or the best call in the world, the call was made and you, me, the players, the coaches, and everyone else in the world who cares in any way, has to accept it and move on.

When the first perfect human is made, let me know. Until then, humans are going to make mistakes and humans are the ones calling basketball games.

Basketball is a very fast-paced game with thousands of situations that referees have to evaluate in every game. There are going to be mistakes made and sometimes an official's judgement of what should be called will not agree with yours.

Live with it. Or take up knitting. I understand there hasn't been a bad officiating call in knitting in years.

This post should be required reading and mandated before any poster is granted the right to reply.
Thank you Aargh. 8)

[ShockRef]

I will add on to my last post.

I officiated a game last season and one of the best JuCo players in the nation was participating.

During one of his contested shots, a defensive player may or may not have made contact during a shot he was taking. (I knew the probability was high there was contact, but I didn't have good angle and guessing was not an option.)

I made no call.

The ball went out of bounds and remained his teams ball.

As I was getting ready to hand him the ball on the in bounds, I mentioned to him "I may have missed that one."
He just looked at me and smiled.

It was all that needed to be said.

He just played on - like a winner does. 8)

[Zardoz]

I'm not going to argue that or any other play, the refs just kept making calls that took away any chance that the game having any flow. Let's look at Stutz, big target, gets hammered at one end, no call, ticky tack or nothing at the other end , blow whistle. Did these guys go to the Ed Hightower "I am the show not the players" school of officiating?