No respect for the Valley

[Ashockalypse]

Thanks Fever that's what I meant.

[SB Shock]

C-USA had just six of its 12 teams finish above .500, and without taking a look at everyone's individual SOS, I'm going to assume they played roughly the same level of opponents. I just believe that our bottom five is better than C-USA,

To me this is a loser's argument. Who cares if a conference worst 5 is better than another conference worst 5. That's like kissing your sister. What matters is getting to the dance and making the most of it.

If the conference wants to be respected then they need to do what they did in 2006.

No, you see that IS the argument. If you're arguing which conference is better,

Well I'm not arguing which conference is better, I did use CUSA as an illustration of why playing the no respect card is a precarious argument which the other side can easily make a counter argument.

If your writing this article and you have a choice of selecting the MVC or CUSA as your No. 10 - who are you going to select? The conference that best team was NIU who was one and done? or the conference that had Memphis in it?

Did we deserve two teams last year? Maybe. sCUm was extremely close.

CU had a RPI of 46 and SOS 101. They only played one top 25 team (Dayton) and were 6-6 versus versus top 51-100 teams. Add in they had a couple bad losses in their easy schedule. Yeah, they were close, but they didn't deserve in.

How many times has CU made the NCAA's? How many times have they choked in the first round? Had they actually did something in the past maybe they would have got a benifit of the doubt. The biggest national attention they have gotten is that their coach did the "hog call" before deciding he really didn't want a BCS job and crawled back to Omaha.

and other than Memphis last season, our top five could hang with anyone else in the conference.

again, it is about winning not hanging. The facts are the MVC was:

MVC was 5-17 vs BCS
MVC was 9-25 on the road

These IMO are not good numbers. These are not numbers that bring respect. These are not numbers that bring multiple NCAA bids.

Wait, what are you arguing? I thought we were arguing if the Valley was better than the C-USA.

See your mistaken my position. It not about CUSA or any other conference, but it more about whether the MVC was a very good conference - IMO they weren't.

I agree we sucked it up last year. I don't think anyone can deny that the last two years have been bad for the conference and has led to a downward trend. But again, the point is, even in our "bad" years, we still hold our own and we're still one of the Top 10 conference in the nation, better than the C-USA.

Well something we can agree on. Though I disagree that the MVC held their own, looking at the numbers I posted the MVC did not hold their own.

The reality is the MVC better not be striving to be a Top 10 conference - because they won't bring any success. The MVC need to be striving to be a Top 7 conference (and for the MVC it really needs to be at least No. 6).

Frankly I think the MVC and Elgin have not did that great of job, especially after the success of 2006. They did not have a plan for following-up success.

If the MVC was committed they would be instituting scheduling requirements and you wouldn't have ISU(RED) trying to riding conference coat-tails into post-season. You actually might force CU to quit crying about WSU scheduling and take some risk on their part.

Fans can cry about lack of respect - well the conference is not going to get it until they earn it on the court. And it has to be done over a series of years. Having years like the last 2 just does not bring any confidence. Especially when the pundits do show some respect (i.e. CU and SIU) and they make those pundits look like idiots.

[electricmayhem]

The arguments here are fun to read and thought out well. I will only say that even though I agree that the MVC has to prove it on the court, are we worse this year than at any time in the last six seasons?

Remember, the article didn't list us as a top-10 conference, which means 11th or worse. We haven't been that bad in six years... and that's with a bad run in the last two seasons.

[SB Shock]

The arguments here are fun to read and thought out well. I will only say that even though I agree that the MVC has to prove it on the court, are we worse this year than at any time in the last six seasons?

Remember, the article didn't list us as a top-10 conference, which means 11th or worse. We haven't been that bad in six years... and that's with a bad run in the last two seasons.

I agree with your argument and my expectation is the MVC will be Top 7 or 8.

But as I tell my children, you can't just be better, you need to be head-n-shoulders so you control your own destiny.

[RoyalShock]

Most of you, when thinking of conference rank, are thinking RPI, Pomeroy, etc. But I don't get the impression the Fox author is thinking that way. He's talking about the quality at the top. And the Valley hasn't been as good at the top in the last two years and based on that there isn't much reason - from a national viewpoint - to think the top of the league will be better than the top of the other 10 leagues.

We know that the top and middle of the MVC should be stronger, but we can't expect a national writer to recognize that.

Again, let's see if his opinion is accurate at the end of the season.

[shockmonster]

SB Shock You make some good points but if you point to 2006, the Valley was aruguably a top 4-5 conference which will realistically, rarely happen. I think that 7-10 is realistic most every year. Additionally, I do agree that some of the conference schools have dropped the ball by playing very low competition after 2006.

[Anthroshock]

The scheduling penalty that was in place should never have been allowed to lapse. That being said, the Valley has been a consistent top 6-8 conference for many years now. That has not changed and likely will not change.

The issue I see is that the Valley is TOO consistent. There has not been any one team that has been a huge RPI boost or real threat for the Final Four since 2006.

Maybe it is mediocrity, but it is a very high level of mediocrity.

Just some thoughts. I love the Valley. I love the quality of basketball. I think that the best days of the Valley are ahead and in the very near future.

[ShockerFever]

SB, if you read the article, which is the basis for this topic, the Valley is being bumped out of the Top 10 by Conference USA. So that is the point of all of this.

Your point was that everybody is "crying" about a lack of respect for the conference and that we suck. Nobody is arguing that we have been worse since our mid-2000 power surge or that the last two years have caused us to lose some respect. The point is is that we're being ranked below an overall more weak conference... and it's really not even close. I haven't seen your list of reasons why C-USA as a whole should be ranked higher than us.

If we were to use some of the points you made, then by your logic, the West Coast, the Horizon, and God forbid, the Southern Conferences are better conferences than the Valley... and that's simply not the case.

Yes, we agree the Valley is down. But to say we are in the depths of the pre-2000 Valley is just ridiculous.

[electricmayhem]

Fever - well said.

I don't think I was crying about a lack of respect - not that I was accused of it. I was simply stating that the Valley has had off years and still finished in the top-10. Why would this year be any different, when the entire league looks improved?

[SB Shock]

Fever - well said.

Remember this Fever is aka "Baller" of VT.

[WstateU]

Fever - well said.

Remember this Fever is aka "Baller" of VT.

Is this him? :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_rVRTL_MIQ

[ShockerFever]

Fever - well said.

Remember this Fever is aka "Baller" of VT.

Wow, what a bombshell. Thanks for keeping up with that ground-breaking news.

When that's the only response you can mutter, it's pretty safe to assume you lost this one.... badly.

[shockrah]

Fever - well said.

Remember this Fever is aka "Baller" of VT.

Clark Kent is really Superman.

[ShockerFever]

Fever - well said.

Remember this Fever is aka "Baller" of VT.

Clark Kent is really Superman.

:good:

[SB Shock]

Fever - well said.

Remember this Fever is aka "Baller" of VT.

Wow, what a bombshell. Thanks for keeping up with that ground-breaking news.

I just like reminding everybody what you are really about - which is hijacking any and every thread. I mean look at the position you took - CU deserved a bid - bet that hurt when you typed it.

When that's the only response you can mutter, it's pretty safe to assume you lost this one.... badly.

Lost - what did I lose? I gave my perspective, some agreed with some of my points, some didn't.

Here is the "Baller" argument - MVC is great conference because they have sucked the last 2 year but they have been great in the past and therefore they must be great again - well how do you argue with that type of simpleton argument.