Post Game Cardinal v. Shockers

[ShockTalk]

I just wish that when Cold says "I'm Out!", he'd stay that way.

I'm sorry KC and Fever, but Cold has taken being our resident "Sports/Shocker Masochist" to a new level.

:wacko:

[C0|dB|00ded]

Cold ... you are certainly entitled to your opinion about the game but I would suggest that you are catastrophizing it a bit ("40 minutes of fear and confusion on our part."). I also felt that we were intimidated early. Stanford has solid senior talent with sweet 16 experience and showed excellent shooting. That's going to intimidate a lot of teams with a lot more experience than we currently have. There is no question we were back on our heels. But from my perspective, we settled in towards the end of the first half and competed the rest of the way for the most part. As someone else pointed out, we actually outscored them by 6 from some point beginning late in the first half ... outscored them by 3 if you want to take away the late "3" by Hannah. I'm not one to over hype performance and last night was, overall, a poor performance, BUT a great learning experience for this very young, still inexperienced group. While I certainly wish they had played better and competed for the entire game I don't think there is any reason to allow this ONE game to diminsh the progress of the entire season or temper enthusiasm for the future. And now ... I'm out of here also.

As I mentioned before, it was a wake-up call for me. I'm sure the Shockers are going to get better, but we are going to need a helluva lot better personnel before we pass the "eye test". I used to think Durley was a pretty good BCS-type body. Last night he looked like a dough-boy in the paint amongst that stable of stallions.

Paul Miller did a helluva lot to quell my feelings of insecurity personnel-wise. He was big, strong, and passed the "eye test". Having Kyle roam the perimeter at 6'8" helped a ton as well. Now we've gone three years without any semblance of a BCS-style frontcourt and I am tired of it.

Stutz must perform a Stormin' Mormon'esque transformation next year or it will be more of the same. I'm also putting a helluva lot of faith in Gabe Blair to ease my pain, but history forces me to not expect much.

Also, I am still reeling over the "Hawkins Debacle". I NEVER saw that one coming... Imagine how different we would have looked last night with two star guards in 6'4" Murry and 6'5" Hawkins playing together... Hawkins was by and large a complete and utter flop this year. How could P.J. be so wrong?

I know I sound a bit more negative than usual but three straight years of obvious positional holes and sub-sub-standard performance is getting on my nerves. Years are being wasted and we are being mocked by fans of schools and programs that are completely inconsequential. If we don't have an outstanding year next year, I will be very very down on this program.


T


...8)

[C0|dB|00ded]

And you folks thought I wouldn't have a response after the game last night? lololololololololololol

I'm fired up! Big-Time!

You should have seen ol' #5 laughing as he drained 3 after wide-open 3...

I would have fouled that fkr all the way to the 12th row if I would have been a player and seen that...


T


...8)

[C0|dB|00ded]

I am very competitive. It probably isn't healthy...


T


...8)

[ShockTalk]

Most on this board are very competitve and there's nothing unhealthy about it.

Obsessive-compulsive anxiety is another matter.

[C0|dB|00ded]

Most on this board are very competitve and there's nothing unhealthy about it.

Obsessive-compulsive anxiety is another matter.

W.T.F.?

:wacko:


T


...8)

[BostonWu]

Something tells me the Stanford team we saw last night was similar to the team that ran ASU out of their gym. When you're long, lengthy and not very physical you simply put all your eggs in the shooting basket and they were on their game last night.

Regarding Durley not passing your "eye test". Hell he had 11 2nd half points and 8 boards. No doubt he needs to learn to play for 40 minutes but I'm salivating over this year's progress envisioning what the final 2 years might bring.

Finally Cold, how do you totally discount the Cleveland State and Siena (granted early in the season) wins?

[KC Shox]

Cold ... you are certainly entitled to your opinion about the game but I would suggest that you are catastrophizing it a bit ("40 minutes of fear and confusion on our part."). I also felt that we were intimidated early. Stanford has solid senior talent with sweet 16 experience and showed excellent shooting. That's going to intimidate a lot of teams with a lot more experience than we currently have. There is no question we were back on our heels. But from my perspective, we settled in towards the end of the first half and competed the rest of the way for the most part. As someone else pointed out, we actually outscored them by 6 from some point beginning late in the first half ... outscored them by 3 if you want to take away the late "3" by Hannah. I'm not one to over hype performance and last night was, overall, a poor performance, BUT a great learning experience for this very young, still inexperienced group. While I certainly wish they had played better and competed for the entire game I don't think there is any reason to allow this ONE game to diminsh the progress of the entire season or temper enthusiasm for the future. And now ... I'm out of here also.

As I mentioned before, it was a wake-up call for me. I'm sure the Shockers are going to get better, but we are going to need a helluva lot better personnel before we pass the "eye test". I used to think Durley was a pretty good BCS-type body. Last night he looked like a dough-boy in the paint amongst that stable of stallions.

Paul Miller did a helluva lot to quell my feelings of insecurity personnel-wise. He was big, strong, and passed the "eye test". Having Kyle roam the perimeter at 6'8" helped a ton as well. Now we've gone three years without any semblance of a BCS-style frontcourt and I am tired of it.

Stutz must perform a Stormin' Mormon'esque transformation next year or it will be more of the same. I'm also putting a helluva lot of faith in Gabe Blair to ease my pain, but history forces me to not expect much.

Also, I am still reeling over the "Hawkins Debacle". I NEVER saw that one coming... Imagine how different we would have looked last night with two star guards in 6'4" Murry and 6'5" Hawkins playing together... Hawkins was by and large a complete and utter flop this year. How could P.J. be so wrong?

I know I sound a bit more negative than usual but three straight years of obvious positional holes and sub-sub-standard performance is getting on my nerves. Years are being wasted and we are being mocked by fans of schools and programs that are completely inconsequential. If we don't have an outstanding year next year, I will be very very down on this program.


T


...8)

Amen to COLD! He isn't the only one that believes we need atheletes brought into this program. We got exposed last night - plain and simple. Hopefully, KM and JH coming in next year will boost the athleticism on this team so we can at least be on par of a mid-tier BCS team.

We saw the writing on the wall when K-Suck worked our team over in the scrimmage game at the beginning of the season. HCGM knew it, and I think he is getting the guys to do this. So COLD, I will say if next season doesn't start to show some promise in terms of being athletic, then I'd start to get very concerned on the direction of this program.

[SubGod22]

Some of you seem to think that in what is basically one recruiting class that Marshall should have solved all of our problems left by the previous staff... We are bringing in bigger and better athletes and that will continue but it's a process and one we should enjoy. Next year will be better.

As far as the Stanford game goes, that's what happens when one team is on fire and the other team just isn't knocking down thier open shots. The Shox missed a lot of easy looks early and didn't improve all that much as it went on. Still, there's no reason to be as down as Cold is.

I'm anxious to see what the new guys add next year. We lose a warrior in Ramon, but we're gaining a 6'8" 235 replacement for him in Blair. If he can rebound and put the ball back on offense I'll be happy. We bring in a 6'8" SF in Coy along with a 6'7" freak with endless amounts of energy in Hamilton to go along with a 6'4" PG with an amazing wing span and good athleticism in Mannigault. Who knows what we'll get in '10!!!

Count me as one that sees the arrow pointing way up and is excited to see what happens over the summer and into the future

[WSUwatcher]

Yep

Hmmm... Sub, Cold, and KC. Will the level-headed person please stand up? Okay, thanks, Sub.

Of course the Shocks aren't a finished product in terms of recruiting. They'll be counting on improvement from this year's new guys, absolutely. But it's also obvious that with Manigault they're also trying to change the look and style, both offensively and defensively, of the PG vs. what we're used to seeing. Gabe Blair and, for the future, Jerome Hamilton are both upgrades in terms of size and athleticism at PF; also, the goal is obviously to get Durley over to that spot before he's finished here. For next year, Cold's heart throb Orukpe remains a major target at center. Whatever other guard is recruited will no doubt be intended as an step up from a player like Chamberlain, who is clearly a transitional guy and not someone who would have been recruited a year from now (just as Hatch would not have been recruited at this point). That isn't to disparage the guys here now, just to say that Marshall obviously plans to keep upgrading in terms of size, talent, and athletic ability.

Some of our posters have the patience of a toddler. Maybe they're also influenced by the history of the previous regime, which had one foundational class but didn't do as much to upgrade from there as we (or probably the former coaches themselves) would have liked to see. I don't expect that to be a problem for Marshall, but the adults among us know that it's going to a take a while for the upgrades to occur. Right now, we're still in transition.

[RoyalShock]

I would say that Turgeon had one foundational class (Howard, Burns, Miller), one improvement class (Braeuer, Ogirri and Cooz after redshirt), and crucial fill-ins (Wilson, Bradley, Martin).

Marshall now has his foundational class (Murry, Kyles, Stutz) and, hopefully, his improvement class (Manigault, Hamilton, Coy). The crucial fill-ins should include Blair, Orukpe and player(s) to be named later.

Marshall himself said (I think it was after the Stanford game) that with this year's recruits he is done laying the foundation.

[Ricardo del Rio]

Cold and KC,

Remember the immortal words of Coach Al McGuire.

"When rebuilding a program within NCAA rules, there ain't no such thing as a jet job."

Also remember the immortal words of Coach Denny Crum.

"I recruit players, who can run and jump. I will teach them the rest."

Pay attention to the first quote. There is not any particular reason for the second quote, but it is interesting and one of my favs.

[ShockCounselor]

Thank you Sub and Watcher for your reasonable outlooks. I don't think any of us would disagree with Cold that, ultimately, we want to see a more athletic team although I would add that I also hope they are players with basketball IQ/instinct. Athleticism alone does not make a basketball player and the lack of it does not preclude a player from being effective and succsessful. We will certainly need to become more athletic to compete as a top 50 program consistently and I agree with Cold on that point. WSU has the level of support and resources that I think we should be at that level each year and I will be as dissappointed as anyone if we don't obtain that level within the next few years. But it's a process ... a journey, and we're still a fair distance from the destination yet. Patience.

[_kai_]

This is how I view the loss. It helps our team mature, and humbles us.

I really think that with our new found success in the 2nd half of the year, we got a bit cocky, and especially at home. The Cards came in an gave us a nice reality check, that we still have a long way to go, to improve and compete at the next level. It was the best thing that could have happened to this team. Who cares about the CBI, we should care about next season, and this was a nice lesson to be learned. I think it leaves a bitter taste in the mouths of the returning players, and definitely chaps Marshall's butt pretty bad, because I'm sure he hates getting embarrassed at home by a first year coach at a BCS school.

[ShockCounselor]

Kai ... I had similar thoughts ... that this served to remind the team that there is still much room for improvement, individually and collectively. Maybe even HCGM needed a bit of a reminder.