The Screw in St. Lou (video evidence)

[shockball]

MVC Championship Administration.
mitch@mvc.org
elgin@mvc.org

I tried unsuccessfully copying and pasting a link to the video to send to these two. Perhaps someone with more literacy can do that.

Interesting to note that Mike Sanzere was the official that was a little tardy dropping his arm to signal to the scorekeeper to start the clock. He was also part of last years crew that ejected Gregg.

[kellykemnitz]

I think we all need to e-mail Doug Elgin. Let's get this campaign started.

[WUwolf]

As i said before the tourney,we need to get the F^%$ out of the valley.I used to be a bigtime fan of this league and would root for any valley team playing anyone else,but thats over.Now unfortunatley its too political,from Elgin to the referees.Funny how the big defender of referees hasnt shown up to defend this one,Shockref what do u think now??...By the way "I LOVE ILLINOIS ST",Not even Elgin could screw them out of the asswhoopen they put on those prison bitches to the north.

[Rosewood]

Ok, in case I die in a Tornado. Frame by framing it from the FSN video, you get an even 2 seconds from touch to release.

I'm still working on presentation.

[RoyalShock]

I was definitely wrong. Nice work, 96.

[ShockerFever]

Let it go.


T


...8)

You are very strange and hard to figure out at times.

I hope that was sarcasm..

[DUShock]

Ditto 96. Thanks again for the fine video work. Guess my iron man and dvr isn't all it's cracked up to be!

[Aargh]

If you use that camera angle and start the clock at the exact moment you see Woodfox touch the ball, that completely misses the original bobble.

If you ignore the original bobble, which isn't visible from this angle, and use the first time the ball is SEEN touching Woodfox, it exactly correlates to the "Elgin theory".

It took them 3 minutes to put 1.9 on the clock, and as I saw it that was just as the ball crossed the end line, but before it hit the court. Then it took 10 seconds to figure out that if no one "actually saw" the bobble, it wasn't on tape, so the shot could stand.

I was ready to give up on this. I pretty much agreed with the Elgin theory, but if Elgin's explanation is:
"Okay, right there is when the clock should have started" and he showed everybody the touch after the bobble, it would look exactly the way everybody in the TV trailer saw it.

A little help on what someone is seeing always goes a long way toward getting people to believe what you want them to believe.

[ISASO]

Comparing the real clock to the Official Doug Elgin Clock, the timekeeper was 1.1 seconds late in starting the game clock, not .4 seconds late. At the point where the Doug Elgin clock first moves off of 1.9, the real clock shows 0.8 seconds left. No wonder his fumblings and dribblings seemed like an eternity.

What a jobbing.

[ShockerFever]

I really liked Doug Elgin too.

I just can't believe he'd actually stoop this low. Either that or he's totally ignorant and is probably worthy of a step-down.

[shockball]

This is great work 96. I paused the action when the inbounds pass hit the floor. Your clock is still showing 1.9 seconds left. Please don't take offense because I thought someone might have manipulated things to go the way the wanted. Perhaps it was the guys in the truck.

[JohannSebastianShock]

I knew it. I was really hoping Elgin was right that it still would've counted, but unfortunately I was right. Not often I'll say that.

[shockerfan]

Wow, interesting indeed. Although really, in this game you can point to sooooo many different things for BOTH teams to say things could have ended up differently.

For example:

We fouled P'Allen (on purpose) several times in the last 20 secs or so to try and stop the clock...the ref's never called it and we ended up with the steal. Now had Creighton got the foul like they should have they probably would have made it to where Toure's 3 didn't matter that much anyway.


Just saying, as upset as I was initially....I'm over it. If for no other reason than it won't do any good anyway.

[ISASO]

Comparing the real clock to the Official Doug Elgin Clock, the timekeeper was 1.1 seconds late in starting the game clock, not .4 seconds late. At the point where the Doug Elgin clock first moves off of 1.9, the real clock shows 0.8 seconds left. No wonder his fumblings and dribblings seemed like an eternity.

What a jobbing.

After a few more runs, I got the left clock to show 0.7 seconds left and the game clock still read 1.9, so the timekeeper was 1.2 seconds late starting the clock.

[Rosewood]

Ok, more evidence...

I took both the KSN video and the FSN video and looked at them frame by frame. I zoomed in, I enhanced, I put Adobe Premiere Pro through the works. I came to one undeniable conclusion. Two seconds even passed from the time Woodfox touched the ball to when he released.

There were two other angles available that you saw when you watched the game. One is from the other side of the court, like KSN's. The other is a half court shot that is absolutely perfect. Unfortunately, FSN never showed these two shots at real speed. They were slowing the tape down on playback, and not be a constant factor. HOWEVER, these two shots helped me find other visual clues, like a massive series of camera flashes going off the instant after the ball releases. This helped me go back to the real time video I had and confirm my exact 2 second count. If y'all tell me that at some point FSN played the half court angle at real time I'll go back and find it.

Notes:
I also frame by framed the out of bounds. 1.9 is a good call on the clock.
The video is at 30 frames per second. So on the big red clock, each tick is one frame of video, or 1/30th of a second.
I'm not focusing on when the clock started or any of that. If you watch the video you will see the board go red, indicating 0.0 seconds when the TV clock is still between .2 and .3. There is going to be that kind of lag because the game clock you see on TV live comes from a camera pointing at the clock. I am sure you have noticed that you will lose the clock some times if there is a massive backboard shaking dunk or if someone runs into the clock and breaks it. What I focused on was this: How long from touch to release? How long was he supposed to take.

The answer is he took one tenth of a second too long.

Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI2pTi-sZWk Please vote 5 star!

High quality h264: http://rosewood.shackspace.com/shox/evidence.mp4 (20mb file)
Mirror High quality h264: http://ilrosewood.com/evidence.mp4 (20mb file)

No audio as it really isn't needed here.

My conclusion: On pure fact, the shot should not have counted. Period. End of discussion. They didn't get the call right. I don't know how to put that any other way. He took two seconds flat. The clock was 1.9.

That said, when you add in the ol human element, I can't expect them to get the call right there on the floor. One tenth of a second is tough in terms of getting the clock started, etc. etc. But I would have expected them to get it right at the table. The over riding thought should be "let's get the call RIGHT."

Now, Elgin is a whole different story. On the surface you think "Hey, he got out in front of this one. Nothing to hide, etc. etc." But then you see these two videos and then you know he got it wrong. So that leads me to WHY and that is the question that bothers me the most.