New 2009 post season tournaments

[wushock]

With the addition of two new post season tournaments each with 16 teams seems that WSU may be playing in a post season tournament no matter what happens in Mo Valley tourney. Surely we are one of the best 129 teams in the country.

[ShockerFever]

According to the RPI, we're at 148 at the present.

I'd like us playing in any postseason, but man, I really hate the whole CBI and now retarded collegeinsider.com tourneys. It's gonna be so watered down, which defeats the whole purpose. Not to mention, it's pretty much all about $$.

[ShockerGorilla]

According to the RPI, we're at 148 at the present.

I'd like us playing in any postseason, but man, I really hate the whole CBI and now retarded collegeinsider.com tourneys. It's gonna be so watered down, which defeats the whole purpose. Not to mention, it's pretty much all about $$.

Yeah, but it could be another chance to see Ramon & our Shox play at CKA.

:goshocks:

[Flanders]

Though either tournament will be watered down, what it would provide WSU is the chance for a young team to get in more practice time and get more experience in a tournament atmosphere. Both things will benefit the team next year if they take it seriously.

And if WSU finishes in the Top 5 of the MVC, then the rpi is meaningless - they'll get a bid to one of these tourneys.

[WstateU]

According to the RPI, we're at 148 at the present.

I'd like us playing in any postseason, but man, I really hate the whole CBI and now retarded collegeinsider.com tourneys. It's gonna be so watered down, which defeats the whole purpose. Not to mention, it's pretty much all about $$.

Yeah, but it could be another chance to see Ramon & our Shox play at CKA.

:goshocks:

Yeah II... and it would give our extremely young team more quality practice time and also a game or 2 against decent competition.

:good: :good:

[ShockerFever]

All valid points guys and I'm with you on those... but just stepping out and being a general college basketball fan for a second, I really hate these tournaments.

When over 1/3 of all the teams in the NCAA are playing in post season, it defeats the whole purpose of playing in the ultimate tournament. No one outside of the teams playing in these other two tournaments will even know these things are existing. Again, it's all about money.

[hutchshox]

Just play BABY!!!!

[WuDrWu]

Fever, I understand what you are saying but it's kinda like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Does the existence of the CBI make the NCAA any less important? No

You don't need to hang a banner for it to be beneficial to the program.

The fact is that as long as your season is in flux, you can continue practicing as a team. As long as you are playing games, you are learning as a team.

The instant your season is over, that's it. No more practicing and no more playing.

Everyone still playing is getting a ton of experience while you are doing NOTHING. It is in many ways unfair.

We need to keep playing. Our kids and coaches do...the fans want to watch....why else is there a reason for competing in the 1st place?

[WuDrWu]

Again, it's all about money.

Well you're right there. It IS all about money. I agree it SUCKS that it's all about money but that doesn't change that it IS all about money.

You can either change the rules and make it not about money (good luck btw) or you can play the game.

Let me ask you this....Why is WSU a better program than UNI or SIU or Evansville etc?

Answer: Money.

[ShockerFever]

Fever, I understand what you are saying but it's kinda like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Does the existence of the CBI make the NCAA any less important? No

You don't need to hang a banner for it to be beneficial to the program.

The fact is that as long as your season is in flux, you can continue practicing as a team. As long as you are playing games, you are learning as a team.

The instant your season is over, that's it. No more practicing and no more playing.

Everyone still playing is getting a ton of experience while you are doing NOTHING. It is in many ways unfair.

We need to keep playing. Our kids and coaches do...the fans want to watch....why else is there a reason for competing in the 1st place?

Again, I'm fine with your reasoning. I do want this team to play into March, no doubt about it. But I think the most deserving teams earn their right to keep practicing and playing into March. How are we to say we're more deserving of extra playing time than any other team that doesn't get invited to one of these things? We've had a great year and we're playing great late, but is a .500 basketball team really worthy of playing in a post season tournament? Maybe, in one of these watered down pud tourneys, yes.

When does it stop? How many more tourneys will it take to say that's enough?

It's hard enough remembering who wins the NIT every year, much less the silly CBI.

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

Fever, I understand what you are saying but it's kinda like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Does the existence of the CBI make the NCAA any less important? No

You don't need to hang a banner for it to be beneficial to the program.

The fact is that as long as your season is in flux, you can continue practicing as a team. As long as you are playing games, you are learning as a team.

The instant your season is over, that's it. No more practicing and no more playing.

Everyone still playing is getting a ton of experience while you are doing NOTHING. It is in many ways unfair.

We need to keep playing. Our kids and coaches do...the fans want to watch....why else is there a reason for competing in the 1st place?

Again, I'm fine with your reasoning. I do want this team to play into March, no doubt about it. But I think the most deserving teams earn their right to keep practicing and playing into March. How are we to say we're more deserving of extra playing time than any other team that doesn't get invited to one of these things? We've had a great year and we're playing great late, but is a .500 basketball team really worthy of playing in a post season tournament? Maybe, in one of these watered down pud tourneys, yes.

When does it stop? How many more tourneys will it take to say that's enough?

It's hard enough remembering who wins the NIT every year, much less the silly CBI.

Let's try to be a little optimistic. We play in this tourney, get a home game, pack the house for our team, and they get a head start on half the other teams in the valley towards next year.

Next year we start a run of 5 straight years of NIT or NCAA, and we don't give a hoot who is playing in these pud tourneys.

[RoyalShock]

Re: New 2009 post season tournaments

With the addition of two new post season tournaments each with 16 teams seems that WSU may be playing in a post season tournament no matter what happens in Mo Valley tourney. Surely we are one of the best 129 teams in the country.

The problems with your theory are that, as someone already pointed out, the RPI (and the other computer rankings) do not have us in the top 129 teams. And those rankings are the only real objective measure. Although neither tournament claims to utilize any computer/power ranking in their selection criteria. So this may be an exercise in futility.

Because of the automatic bid selection to the NCAA and the NIT taking regular season conference champs that don't make the NCAA.

Cases in point:

SWAC - Best RPI team is Jackson State at 202. Current conference leader is Alabama St. (214). Two of them could end up in the NCAA and NIT.

MEAC - League leader and top RPI is Morgan St. (149). If they don't win their tourney, there goes two more bids.

Ivy - Cornell is far and away the best RPI team at 117. Someones else wins tournament, another bid gone.

Atlantic Sun - League leader is Jacksonville (172). Top RPI team is Belmont (116). Another scenario where two bids could be taken by 130+ RPI teams.

Summit League - Only one team with an RPI better than 150 - American (80)

Really, just about any league not in the Big 6 could have a team not in the top 130 RPI "steal" a bid. If you want to feel safe about a bid to one of those tournaments and assume RPI is a factor, you better be right around 100 or better. And we won't be.

The other thing you are overlooking is that at least one of those tournaments (the CI.com for certain) requires a winning record against D1 competition. We are currently 14-14, in that regard. That means we need to beat SIU and win at least one game in the MVC tournament to even be eligible for that one.

We may actually be more attractive to the CBI, as they consider how well a team finishes the season.

About the CBI

About the CollegeInsider.com Tournament

[fansince80s]

Welcome to College Football Bowl games!

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

Re: New 2009 post season tournaments

With the addition of two new post season tournaments each with 16 teams seems that WSU may be playing in a post season tournament no matter what happens in Mo Valley tourney. Surely we are one of the best 129 teams in the country.

The problems with your theory are that, as someone already pointed out, the RPI (and the other computer rankings) do not have us in the top 129 teams. And those rankings are the only real objective measure. Although neither tournament claims to utilize any computer/power ranking in their selection criteria. So this may be an exercise in futility.

Because of the automatic bid selection to the NCAA and the NIT taking regular season conference champs that don't make the NCAA.

Cases in point:

SWAC - Best RPI team is Jackson State at 202. Current conference leader is Alabama St. (214). Two of them could end up in the NCAA and NIT.

MEAC - League leader and top RPI is Morgan St. (149). If they don't win their tourney, there goes two more bids.

Ivy - Cornell is far and away the best RPI team at 117. Someones else wins tournament, another bid gone.

Atlantic Sun - League leader is Jacksonville (172). Top RPI team is Belmont (116). Another scenario where two bids could be taken by 130+ RPI teams.

Summit League - Only one team with an RPI better than 150 - American (80)

Really, just about any league not in the Big 6 could have a team not in the top 130 RPI "steal" a bid. If you want to feel safe about a bid to one of those tournaments and assume RPI is a factor, you better be right around 100 or better. And we won't be.

The other thing you are overlooking is that at least one of those tournaments (the CI.com for certain) requires a winning record against D1 competition. We are currently 14-14, in that regard. That means we need to beat SIU and win at least one game in the MVC tournament to even be eligible for that one.

We may actually be more attractive to the CBI, as they consider how well a team finishes the season.

About the CBI

About the CollegeInsider.com Tournament

The problem with your theory is that you assume this will be a fair process, and that they are looking for the best teams left, all other things aside.

Some teams will not participate. Others will be left out due to fact that the CBI will not give a home game to American and their 4500 seat gym that will probably be half empty when they can have a Wichita State and their 10,500 strong buying tickets.

They can't afford to be fair. They have to make money or they will fail, and cease to exist.

[SubGod22]

These tournaments don't matter to anyone but those who are playing in them. Nobody is saying it's a huge deal. But it would be very beneficial to a young Shocker team who could use all the court time they can get.