Some unorganized observations

[RoyalShock]

This post will be more rambling thoughts than concise opinion. Some of it is what I've seen and some of it is what others are seeing that I mostly agree with.

Defense. In general I like our on-ball defense. But our help defense seems to be getting worse as the season progresses. Several times I've seen 2-3 of our inside players watch an opposing guard drive past his defender and get to the rim without making a serious defensive move. We also seem to be a step slow reacting to screens. Is this a communication issue?

Offense. I'm beginning to have reservations about HCGM's offense, or at least what I'm seeing executed on the floor. I'm still hoping that it's just our young players struggling to "get it". An offense should create team scoring opportunities. What I'm seeing so far are guys creating their own shots and scoring almost in spite of the offense. Except for a few times when our shooters get open "spot up" shots (which may or may not be due to a failure on the part of the defense), most baskets seem to be due to a player making a move. Obviously, when you get the ball into the post the player needs to make a move. I'm talking more about what's happening on the perimeter. It just seems like we dribble a lot and make mostly pointless passes until we can dump it into the post or a guard makes a play.

Last night there was a play where Hannah got the ball into the post from the wing (I think it was to Durley). Hannah's man "dug" down on JT. Hannah just stood there and allowed another Drake defender to take one step his direction and effectively guard two Shockers. Had Hannah dropped into the corner Durley could have kicked it back out and Clevin would have either had an open shot or could have faked and drawn a foul or stepped to the side for a shot. Instead, the double-team produced a turnover.

I will say that I think our screening and use of them is getting a little better. A couple of Hannah's threes were made possible by solid, high ball-screens.

At this point I'm torn between questioning Marshall's system and thinking it's due to inexperienced players. It's compounded by the fact that nearly every one of our 3-5 position players have at least one glaring deficiency in their game, be it quickness, defense, offense, effort, fouling, or bball IQ. You can see the flashes of talent, but it seems for every flash there's one or more moments of prolonged darkness to offset it.

Are my observations off-base here? What are some of you seeing?

[wu_shizzle]

Re: Some unorganized observations

Offense. I'm beginning to have reservations about HCGM's offense, or at least what I'm seeing executed on the floor. I'm still hoping that it's just our young players struggling to "get it". An offense should create team scoring opportunities.

I see plenty of "opportunities" being created by our offense. I just see us missing a bunch of good shots. We're terrible from 3 (as a team) and from the line, and seem to miss a lot of bunnies. It doesn't matter how good the coaching is if we can't execute.

[Ricardo del Rio]

Re: Some unorganized observations

This post will be more rambling thoughts than concise opinion. Some of it is what I've seen and some of it is what others are seeing that I mostly agree with.

Defense. In general I like our on-ball defense. But our help defense seems to be getting worse as the season progresses. Several times I've seen 2-3 of our inside players watch an opposing guard drive past his defender and get to the rim without making a serious defensive move. We also seem to be a step slow reacting to screens. Is this a communication issue?

Offense. I'm beginning to have reservations about HCGM's offense, or at least what I'm seeing executed on the floor. I'm still hoping that it's just our young players struggling to "get it". An offense should create team scoring opportunities. What I'm seeing so far are guys creating their own shots and scoring almost in spite of the offense. Except for a few times when our shooters get open "spot up" shots (which may or may not be due to a failure on the part of the defense), most baskets seem to be due to a player making a move. Obviously, when you get the ball into the post the player needs to make a move. I'm talking more about what's happening on the perimeter. It just seems like we dribble a lot and make mostly pointless passes until we can dump it into the post or a guard makes a play.

Last night there was a play where Hannah got the ball into the post from the wing (I think it was to Durley). Hannah's man "dug" down on JT. Hannah just stood there and allowed another Drake defender to take one step his direction and effectively guard two Shockers. Had Hannah dropped into the corner Durley could have kicked it back out and Clevin would have either had an open shot or could have faked and drawn a foul or stepped to the side for a shot. Instead, the double-team produced a turnover.

I will say that I think our screening and use of them is getting a little better. A couple of Hannah's threes were made possible by solid, high ball-screens.

At this point I'm torn between questioning Marshall's system and thinking it's due to inexperienced players. It's compounded by the fact that nearly every one of our 3-5 position players have at least one glaring deficiency in their game, be it quickness, defense, offense, effort, fouling, or bball IQ. You can see the flashes of talent, but it seems for every flash there's one or more moments of prolonged darkness to offset it.

Are my observations off-base here? What are some of you seeing?

Perhaps a better way of saying it is the offense doesn't fit the players.

We do not have any perimeter player, who has size, quickness and high 3 ball percentage. We have players, who have two of the attributes, but not all three. Some only have one....maybe.

No matter how you slice and dice it, the post offense and defense is a problem, particularly on defense.

[SpanglerFan316]

I think Royal has some good observations. Remember Mark Turgeon's offense. He didn't have extremely athletic players but his offense had a purpose. He didn't use backdoor plays as often as I would have liked but we were trying to get Ogirri an open shot or give Howard an advantage inside or have Miller play the passing & scoring game or ... With Marshall, I often wonder what is the point of our offense. I can usually predict where the next pass is going. We do not take advantage when we are double teamed.

Does Marshall have an organized plan for the offense? If the answer is "yes," then one has to ask if he is a good teacher. Over the summer, I hope he visits with some of the national coaches who are known as outstanding (basketball) teachers.

A bit off-topic but I wonder if Marshall talks to lots of people (e.g. other coaches) or only to a small circle of friends. I ask because getting lots of input can be useful while only having serious discussions with a small cadre of friends might tend to reinforce existing tendencies. What does HCGM do after home games? away games? on off days? Does he talk to Bill Self or John Wooden or Bob Knight or Tom Davis or Don Meyer or ... What about looking at something like http://www.coachingtoolbox.net/ or "Talent and the Secret Life of Teams" http://www.terrypettit.com/.

[ISASO]

We all know the drill, or you should by now:

Run a set play to take advantage of something they gleaned from the scouting report or tape, then if that breaks down we go motion until the first good opportunity arises.

I think we fail to run the set play effectively and are hung up getting into the motion and running it well enough to get shots these guys can make. Unfortunately, when this all pans out it still comes down to making the shot, which we fail at routinely.

Hence the saying "We need makers not shooters".

[shockar25]

I don't think it's the offensive scheme, it's the execution. How many times do players pass the ball right to an opposing player instead of an open man? How many alley-oops are we going to miss time before we improve our awareness and timing? Lazy passes and players sometimes not paying attention to what's going on/the called play are much of the problem. I think the system is fine.

Now, don't get me wrong, I still like the potential of this team, but they're going to have to get better at passing and ball movement and everyone's going to have to be on the same page (or play) before we start to see the real showing of Marshall's offense.

[1979Shocker]

I think it all, or most of it, hinges on the point guard. When the point guard is dribbling too much, you're going to have problems.

[im4wsu]

Just visited with a Des Moines resident about the game. He thought officiating was very inconsistent, but not one sided. He wondered about Hannah double-clutching before passing the ball. I mentioned at least three turnovers were due to the intended receiver of the pass moved or looked the wrong direction causing the pass to look terrible. He agreed that he saw that it might be the cause for the double-clutching. In any event, it sure messes up the timing.

[RoyalShock]

I think we fail to run the set play effectively and are hung up getting into the motion and running it well enough to get shots these guys can make. Unfortunately, when this all pans out it still comes down to making the shot, which we fail at routinely.

This makes a lot of sense and fits right into what I'm seeing with the offense.

[SubGod22]

I think it all, or most of it, hinges on the point guard. When the point guard is dribbling too much, you're going to have problems.

And that's why when Hannah is on his game we do fairly well with him in. The problem is we haven't found anyone to really take over for him when he's out. Chamberlain dribbles WAY TOO MUCH. Hannah does at times but for the most part he's trying to do something. This is where KJ should help us some next season. He'll give us a bigger guard who's primary goal is to create for others. Yes, he'll only be a FR, but it'll be a nice change at times.

[SpanglerFan316]

I think it all, or most of it, hinges on the point guard. When the point guard is dribbling too much, you're going to have problems.

And that's why when Hannah is on his game we do fairly well with him in. The problem is we haven't found anyone to really take over for him when he's out. Chamberlain dribbles WAY TOO MUCH. Hannah does at times but for the most part he's trying to do something. This is where KJ should help us some next season. He'll give us a bigger guard who's primary goal is to create for others. Yes, he'll only be a FR, but it'll be a nice change at times.

Mary Elizabeth Hooper was only a freshman and she played the equivalent of "point guard" (i.e. setter). How did she do?
Central Region Freshman of the Year: Mary Elizabeth Hooper, Wichita State http://www.goshockers.com/ViewArticl...ATCLID=3631459

http://www.ksn.com/sports/wsu/36356129.html

MEH beat (for the Central Region Freshman of the Year award), for example, freshman Michelle Kocher of U.Texas who was the full time setter on the #3 team in the nation.

If MEH can be great as a freshman, then so can KJ.

[BostonWu]

What in the world does WSU basketball-volleyball-baseball-bowling have to do with one another?

[ISASO]

They all require balls?

[ShockerDave]

I think it all, or most of it, hinges on the point guard. When the point guard is dribbling too much, you're going to have problems.

And that's why when Hannah is on his game we do fairly well with him in. The problem is we haven't found anyone to really take over for him when he's out. Chamberlain dribbles WAY TOO MUCH. Hannah does at times but for the most part he's trying to do something. This is where KJ should help us some next season. He'll give us a bigger guard who's primary goal is to create for others. Yes, he'll only be a FR, but it'll be a nice change at times.

Mary Elizabeth Hooper was only a freshman and she played the equivalent of "point guard" (i.e. setter). How did she do?
Central Region Freshman of the Year: Mary Elizabeth Hooper, Wichita State http://www.goshockers.com/ViewArticl...ATCLID=3631459

http://www.ksn.com/sports/wsu/36356129.html

MEH beat (for the Central Region Freshman of the Year award), for example, freshman Michelle Kocher of U.Texas who was the full time setter on the #3 team in the nation.

If MEH can be great as a freshman, then so can KJ.

Just tell me he doesn't have to wear those tight volleyball shorts!!!
:D

[SpanglerFan316]