Ellis Has Completely Lost His Confidence

[Kung Wu]

With respect to the "intentional foul" of course it was intentional just like thousands of others that are committed on a player about to make a lay-up. The difference was that most of the others are called as regular fouls rather than intentional because the defensive player went for the ball. Having seen AE's "intentional foul" up close he hit the Bradley's player arm near the ball, did not grab him and did not knock him down. It should have been a regular foul rather than an intentional. I am not sure what difference that made in the game but it was not a good call.

That was an easy intentional foul call. He hammered the guy with both arms and made it apparent that he didn't care about anything other than fouling. There is a way to foul a player intentionally without letting him score and not being called for the intentional. Ellis was nowhere near that. Nobody was surprised by the call.

I think with Aaron the gloves have come off. Marshall has been gentle with him in the past and it obviously hasn't done much good. Maybe this will get to Ellis and he'll pull it together. You can't be gentle with everyone. Sometimes this behavior is needed and it does work. It doesn't work with everyone but nothing else has worked for Ellis so far.

Why hasn't anyone brought up when he ripped into both Hatch and Chamberlain? He had both of them by the jersey and was definitely not asking how their mothers were.

I haven't seen anything from Marshall that bothers me yet.

I might agree with you if the play happened at the other end of the court but it was within 30 feet of me and others in my section and Ellis definitely brought his hand/arm down across the Bradley players arm right at the ball. He almost got the ball and not arm. I don't know what angle you had at the play but it was not a clear intentional foul of the type that is usually called as such. I have seen a lot worse intentional fouls not called as such. Usually the foul has to be a grab of the other player or hacking across the shoulders not near the ball. As I said of course it was intentional but it was certainly not violent and the Bradley player just wasn't able to shoot the ball because of the foul.

What happened with the foul called on Toure at the other end where the Bradley player fell down? Toure and the others acted as if the Bradley player did something that made it look like Toure fouled him. The ref indicated he shoved the player in the chest.

It wasn't the arm that you saw sweeping the ball in the front. I was sitting behind him, and it was clearly the arm behind the player grabbing him and pushing him that drew the call .. it was clear, intentional, and dangerous -- it doesn't take much of a push to seriously hurt a guy that already has momentum going in the same direction.

[Aargh]

Has anybody considered that maybe the "nice guy" approach has been used for a year and a half and we're seeing the results of that.

Maybe "nice guy" hasn't worked and it's time to try the "tough love" approach.

[SpanglerFan316]

Has anybody considered that maybe the "nice guy" approach has been used for a year and a half and we're seeing the results of that.

Maybe "nice guy" hasn't worked and it's time to try the "tough love" approach.

Are you claiming that the "tough love" approach will work? Nothing else really matters; success on the court (and in academics) is how a coach is judged.

shockerfan: A really good coach needs to do what works. If you're right and AE responds well to the public criticism, then Marshall was successful. If AE gets worse, Marshall was unsuccessful.

[Aargh]

I'm not claiming anything will work. The majority of players have their greatest improvement between their Fr and So seasons. A lot of taller players have their most noticeable improvements later.

Ellis is playing at about the same level he played last year early.

I'm just saying that we don't know if Marshall has used a "nicey-nice" approach and gotten no results from it. Maybe he's trying a "tough love" approach to see if that has any effect.

We don't know, so I don't see how we can crticicize Marshall for his treatment of Ellis at this stage of Ellis' career.

[Shockfan8]

I'm not claiming anything will work. The majority of players have their greatest improvement between their Fr and So seasons. A lot of taller players have their most noticeable improvements later.

Ellis is playing at about the same level he played last year early.

I'm just saying that we don't know if Marshall has used a "nicey-nice" approach and gotten no results from it. Maybe he's trying a "tough love" approach to see if that has any effect.

We don't know, so I don't see how we can crticicize Marshall for his treatment of Ellis at this stage of Ellis' career.

You guy's tear apart everything.....Maybe Marshall was just po'd at him

[wsu789]

Or, maybe AE made the same mistake he had been repeatedly reminded (nicely) not to do, or maybe he had just been told not to do that in the huddle prior to going out, or maybe this approach has worked with him before, or maybe everything but that has been tried before and hasn't worked. Or maybe a hundred other things that those that post on this board know nothing about....

Let the coaches coach and the players play. If the coaches are abusing players, they will quit and the coach will not be able to recruit and they will lose and be fired.

I suspect there is a method to his madness.

And please stop the comparisons to the business world. There is no comparsion. Pick a better analogy.

[calfan]

wsu789, I think you have it right. I tried my hand at coaching junior high kids a couple of years ago and I can tall you that getting through to kids can be a very trying experience. And these weren't nearly as tough as college kids. Getting those kids motivated and focused was impossible. I would say in a huddle not to make a full court football pass and the first thing they did was just that. It takes a lot of different approaches to motivate and as you said HCGM knows a lot more about how to do that than we do.

[SpanglerFan316]

I'm not claiming anything will work. The majority of players have their greatest improvement between their Fr and So seasons. A lot of taller players have their most noticeable improvements later.

Ellis is playing at about the same level he played last year early.

I'm just saying that we don't know if Marshall has used a "nicey-nice" approach and gotten no results from it. Maybe he's trying a "tough love" approach to see if that has any effect.

We don't know, so I don't see how we can crticicize Marshall for his treatment of Ellis at this stage of Ellis' career.

You guy's tear apart everything.....Maybe Marshall was just po'd at him

You have to ask yourself "How will a recruit like Johnny Coy view HCGM's tirade?" Does this help us in the eyes of recruits?

Maybe the answer is "yes" because it shows how much GM cares (if this is "tough love"). Maybe the answer is "no" because GM was just po'd and recruits don't want to be treated badly. Personally, this would turn me off if I were a recruit; however, if I talked to Gregg and he explained that he had tried other approaches with AE and this was just a coaching technique, I might wish to talk to AE and possibly reevaluate.

[AndShock]

I'm not claiming anything will work. The majority of players have their greatest improvement between their Fr and So seasons. A lot of taller players have their most noticeable improvements later.

Ellis is playing at about the same level he played last year early.

I'm just saying that we don't know if Marshall has used a "nicey-nice" approach and gotten no results from it. Maybe he's trying a "tough love" approach to see if that has any effect.

We don't know, so I don't see how we can crticicize Marshall for his treatment of Ellis at this stage of Ellis' career.

You guy's tear apart everything.....Maybe Marshall was just po'd at him

You have to ask yourself "How will a recruit like Johnny Coy view HCGM's tirade?" Does this help us in the eyes of recruits?

Maybe the answer is "yes" because it shows how much GM cares (if this is "tough love"). Maybe the answer is "no" because GM was just po'd and recruits don't want to be treated badly. Personally, this would turn me off if I were a recruit; however, if I talked to Gregg and he explained that he had tried other approaches with AE and this was just a coaching technique, I might wish to talk to AE and possibly reevaluate.

Some players like that type of coaching, they think they respond better to it and they and their teammates will become better from getting yelled at rather than being patted on the back every time they make a mistake. It's not like Bobby Knight's recruits committed to him and then expected an easy ride. A recruit should always know what he's getting himself into and if any recruit commits to Marshall, he should know that Marshall might yell at him.

Now, I'm not saying Marshall is one of those type of coaches, I seem to think it was much more of Ellis, "not getting it" after being repeatedly told "it" and it was time for Marshall to try other options rather than being nice to him.

[Capitol Shock]

He will develop or he won't. He has natural ability and gifts...he just hasn't figured out how to use them in a college game.

Bottom line, he has things that can't be coached. Will he ever pick up the college game? God only knows. How about getting off his back and Marshall's back and let them develop?

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

How about getting off his back and Marshall's back and let them develop?

:yes:

:goshocks:

[C0|dB|00ded]

The sign of a great coach lies in his ability to adapt to many situations. Some players require tough love while some require support. A great coach leaves his ego at the door and keeps his eye on the prize. That prize being more wins than the rest.

Randy Smithson offers a great example of a coach that could not adapt.


T


...8)

[RussDaBus]

Anyone hear why he didn't play? He warmed up. Is he in the dog house?

[RoyalShock]

I was wondering about Ellis' lack of PT on the way home last night and it dawned on me that SIU doesn't really have anyone he matches up with well, except for possibly Fay.

[Overtime]

When he plays zero minutes,..Something is going on...nuff said