What in the hell was tonight?

[Aargh]

:innocent:

[WstateU]

Is it bad to admit that I am loving this?

:good: :yahoo:

[ShockerPrez]

I am far from ready to throw the coach under the bus. I stated I am content with giving him 5 years. But I don't recall effort and desire being questioned with Randy, Jamar, Rob and Paul. Granted they were special, and gave us headaches over the years, but by God they played their Arses off. Still looking for that from our youngsters and was hoping to see that spark by now.

[JaminShock]

What's sad to me is that we have a really well-thought out post by aircap, and instead of continuing that line of discussion, we have a pissing contest by two or three people old enough and (hopefully) smart enough to know better.

Let's talk basketball in an intelligent, respectful manner, or let's shut the hell up. My two cents....

[kcshocker11]

aircap, that has got to be the "first-post of the millenium". Nice work! :good:

What about Dofo? How soon we forget! :D 8) :posterwu:

[DUShock]

Look HCGM's contract is golden for 7. Someone knew the task ahead. Inspite of the frustration (mine included) give it time to work...

Come on Shocks!!!!

[shockar25]

I have been lurking for years and finally decided to plunge into the fray. This seems like a perfect post to start.

It is my recollection that (easily wrong) that at about this time every season a similar post appears. It does not seem to matter who the coach is, or who the team members are, but around the sixth game of the year to some posters the sky is falling – the team lost the game, the players are stumbling around and, most consistently, the coach does not know what to do. I understand why they appear, after all the posters are fans and want the team to win. For years I read these posts and agreed. In the last few years I have changed my opinion.

The main reason I changed my opinion is I decided that I need to root for the Shockers over the long haul. I cheer for them to win every game but I do not expect them to do so, especially this year. Although almost all posters on this board seem to agree this is a rebuilding season, after a few games they seem to forget what that means. This is a very young team. Our one “senior” starter is playing his second year in Division 1 basketball. In my opinion that makes him a sophomore in Division 1. No slam on Ramon, he is playing like a true hero. But the step up from juco to Div 1 is a big step. Most of the other starters and the first off the bench are either true freshmen (or juco freshmen) and sophomores.

With a few exceptions these young men are learning an entirely new system and playing at a pace and against players the likes of which they have never seen. What worked for them in high school or juco ball is not adequate for Division one ball. They are learning new skills – offensive and defensive. They are learning new systems – offensive and defensive. They are having to learn how to play with and become a team with a group of new people. No matter how smart they are, or how good they were, they are still in the stage of learning where nothing is instinctive. What the coach wants them to do is foreign to them so they either revert to what used to work for them (usually trying to do too much on their own) or having to consciously think about the next thing they are supposed to do, particularly on offense. This makes them at least a half a step slow to set screens, make cuts or passes. It shows up as turnovers and sloppy offense. It shows up as guys trying to hard to makes all the shots themselves instead of making the necessary passes. Which is, of course, what we are seeing. Until the offense becomes so instinctive that its execution takes no real thought we will still see the same poor offensive production. It will come, it will just take time.

Personally I think our defense, with a few exceptions, is way ahead of our offense. No big surprise.

Another hard thing for a fan to remember is that these are young men. They may be athletically gifted but they are in college, with all the difficulties and confusions that causes. Some are probably homesick. Some may just now be getting a glimmer of what it means to be a student-athlete. I don’t know about you, but for me being in college was hard enough without the additional burden of having to spend long hours at practice and having the burden of everyone’s expectations. I guess for that reason alone I am willing to cut them some slack.

If you watch carefully in each game you can see an “Aha” moment for a player where something they have been coached to do works for them. My expectation is that as the season progresses there will be more and more of them in each game until they disappear as the flow of the game becomes instinctual. For me that is the real pleasure of following this team – watching young men improve personally and improve as a team. It ain’t easy, and it ain’t quick, but it will come. These guys are players, they hate to lose and they want to win.

It is too bad that you can already see some folks considering throwing the coach under the bus. This is a new level for him also. The competition, the athletes and the coaches in the Valley are a big step up for him too. There’s a learning curve for the coach too, but I think HCM has all the tools he needs to succeed, he just needs time and a few more good recruiting classes. Personally, I like the kind of ball he coaches, particularly hard-nosed defense and rebounding. There’s not much I like better than a shot clock violation against an opponant.

A major benefit of following the Valley is that most players are there for four years. There is such a huge change from freshman year to senior year it is almost magical. You get to see an entire team grow up and mature and become real ballers. Think Paul Miller maturing into a major force in the Valley his senior year. Then it starts all over again. We are right now at the beginning of a new cycle. Enjoy the ride.

So am I disappointed in the season so far? Not really. If you are honest, it is what you expected, just not what you hoped for. If the team is still playing at this level in February it might be some cause for concern, but I think there will be some substantial improvement. Will we win the Valley? Not in the cards this year, but look out next year, especially if we get someone to replace the rebounds Ramon is getting this year.

Best post I've read here on Shockernet in a long, long time. Thanks!

[C0|dB|00ded]

Sounds like something a bleeding heart liberal would write.

Some are probably homesick

I don’t know about you, but for me being in college was hard enough without the additional burden of having to spend long hours at practice and having the burden of everyone’s expectations.

This is a new level for him (HCGM) also. The competition, the athletes and the coaches in the Valley are a big step up for him too.

Hi! The proud tradition that WSU enjoys was built on MTXE. If you are homesick or if playing basketball in college in some of the finest facilities in the nation is a wittle too hard, then GET THE F OUT.

This is big-time college basketball at Wichita State University and you are expected to come out and play hard AND SMART. There are 343 programs all over the nation who have freshman as well. It's up to our coach and the players he recruits to be a consistent top-25 team (what any card-carrying member of the Shocker Nation should expect). That means we need to be able to beat 95% of the rest of the nation year in and year out. You don't do that with coddling and spoon-feeding. You recruit horses and then you push them to run faster.


T


...8)

[C0|dB|00ded]

Look HCGM's contract is golden for 7. Someone knew the task ahead. Inspite of the frustration (mine included) give it time to work...

Come on Shocks!!!!

I don't think a coach should have more than 5 guaranteed. Did we really sign him for seven? If a coach's team isn't a helluva lot better in year 4 than it was in year 3, it probably isn't getting much better. That is just my opinion. The only exception is if he brings in a ton of studs after year four and it is a bit of a reloading year in year 5. Then you sign him for another two years and see if he can "grow up" under some severe pressure.

Don't feel bad for HCGM, he is in a high-pressure, results-oriented job and he knows he has to produce. That is why he is getting the big bucks. If things don't happen to work out (and I dearly hope they do), he will walk away with a very nice nest-egg if he is smart with his money.


T


...8)

[ShockerGorilla]

If you are homesick or if playing basketball in college in some of the finest facilities in the nation is a wittle too hard, then GET THE F OUT.

[Zardoz]

Look HCGM's contract is golden for 7. Someone knew the task ahead. Inspite of the frustration (mine included) give it time to work...

Come on Shocks!!!!

I don't think a coach should have more than 5 guaranteed. Did we really sign him for seven? If a coach's team isn't a helluva lot better in year 4 than it was in year 3, it probably isn't getting much better. That is just my opinion. The only exception is if he brings in a ton of studs after year four and it is a bit of a reloading year in year 5. Then you sign him for another two years and see if he can "grow up" under some severe pressure.

Don't feel bad for HCGM, he is in a high-pressure, results-oriented job and he knows he has to produce. That is why he is getting the big bucks. If things don't happen to work out (and I dearly hope they do), he will walk away with a very nice nest-egg if he is smart with his money.


T


...8)

We did sign him for seven. If we got rid of him before that we would have to buy out the remainder of his contract. I don't think it will ever come to that. The coach has had to start from scratch and is only one year and eight games into a complete rebuild. We just need to have some patience, but Shocker fans aren't exactly known for that quality.

[aircap]

I am far from ready to throw the coach under the bus. I stated I am content with giving him 5 years. But I don't recall effort and desire being questioned with Randy, Jamar, Rob and Paul. Granted they were special, and gave us headaches over the years, but by God they played their Arses off. Still looking for that from our youngsters and was hoping to see that spark by now.

Sorry. I was not referring to you at all but to the completely silly thread wondering if this was another Randy Smithson era.