I find this utterly despicable...

[ShockRef]

The point being, ShockRef, that this was in reference to a specific comment made by n8 in which he commented, "but I can't even entertain the notion that a Shocker would ever stoop that low."

Well, not only did two Shockers stoop that low, but what makes it much worse than the incident you are so upset about is the fact that it was so directed by a coach, and a Shocker coach at that. It was not a one time punch in the groin, but a directed multiple attack that went on and on and on.

And then you blithly try and dismiss it because it happended 50 years ago. Does time excuse the incident in your opinion?

Or do you simply excuse it because our school did it and that makes it OK?

Yeah, and I guess we should dimiss the Holocaust too, because it took place over 60 years ago.

I'm still trying to figure out what happened 50+ years ago and a thug punching a defenseless player in the groin Wednesday night have in common. I guess you are trying to tie it to racial/civil issue from the 50's thinking no one will argue against it to justify your point. Your assertion is about something few on here know about, let alone were alive at the time. A lot of improvements have taken place since then and trying to use your example as a crutch to make a point is far fetched and quite strange.
Try something else. 8)

[Calshockfan]

I followed Ralph Miller's career closely from, 1956 throughout his career. I do not recall him ever being accused of dirty play. If anything, basktball was less physical then than it is now. Miller used an aggresive pressing defense but nothing close to what has been suggested here. I did not see the particular game referenced here, but seriously doubt that there is anything to it. I did see Wichita play against another Cincy All American in the 62-63 season (Ron Bonham) and no such action occurred nor did I see anything approaching that the following year. I witnessed all the home games in those two seasons. Great basketball -- no dirty play.

[Zardoz]

I don't want to get into what may or may not have happened 50 years ago. I'm more inclined to believe that it was more just overly physical defense than dirty play, but then those were different times so who knows. Before this I don't think I have ever seen a player just run down the court and blatantly punch another player in the grapes and then try to act like he did nothing wrong.

[rayc]

I also was at that game when the Big 'O' scored his record 50 points. What a performance!! He could have drop kicked the ball that day and it would have hit nothing but net. What a zone he was in. The thing I remember most about that game was the incredible half court+, off balance, last second, desperation hook shot that hit nothing but the bottom of the net on its way through to end the first half.

Incidently, there wasn't a Shocker within 20 feet of him when he was surprised by getting the ball thrown to him. I don't remember the double teams following him around as you say - maybe so, but they sure weren't able to keep the ball out of his hands, nor prevent him from getting off his shots.

[SB Shock]

Yeah, and I guess we should dimiss the Holocaust too, because it took place over 60 years ago.

Or you might want to choose something that people on this board can either relate to or remember. The game you described sounded like something you would get against a SIU team. :whistle:

I'm sure if you think about it you can come up with an example WSU player (maybe not basketball) in the last 10 years who had did something stupid and he who was banned from playing again.

[shockball]

Al Tate was the Shockers best defender and would have spent quite a bit of time shadowing Oscar. Not a racial/civil issur at all. Tate was also black. Ralph Miller hated to lose and was quite ruthless. FWIW.

[forevershockerfan]

The games I remember watching the big O. play in were all NBA games on the tube when I was knee high to a grasshoppa. The Big O. was about the most consistant shooter game in and game out that I remember. He was one of the best players in the History of the game.

[WuDrWu]

I'm still not sure I completely understand the reference.


Assuming what you say is fact, are you making a glass house comparison?


It seems to me that you are trying to make a point that, imho, is at the root of many of our social problems today.

Just because 1 person does something wrong doesn't mean another gets a free pass. Regular indiscretions also don't score bonus points.

USC has a recent history of less than stellar behavior. It is the only part of the discussion that is relevant. I would think the same thing if it was a WSU player.

I never cared for the way Jamar Howard represented my school, no matter how well he played. He should have been reeled in....his antics will always be a black eye on our University.

Address and fix the problems and START HOLDING PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE.

[kcshocker11]

In the 70's didnt we used to send a player into some games to get the best player on the other team into fights and possibly ejected. Seems to me Kalizinski played that role a few times!

[WstateU]

In the 70's didnt we used to send a player into some games to get the best player on the other team into fights and possibly ejected. Seems to me Kalizinski played that role a few times!

I believe you are correct, however he didn't go in and 'sucker punch' someone in the 'boys'. 60 completely lost me with his apples to oranges comparison.

:roll:

[rrshock]

I think that all of the current issue comes down to 2 things.

1. The coach is an A$$ and puts up with it. He has to be reprimanded and suspended for anything to even be considered in the way of stopping it.

2. The leagues need to suspend players. I don't believe the USC player got suspended. And I know the Miami(Fl) player didn't get suspended. Until harsh penalties are put to the offenders, there is nothing that will stop them.

The referees didn't even see these things happen in real time. They had to go back to video replay to see it. That is a good thing about the video replay, in that they can review potentially flagrant offenses by a player. But when all that happens is an ejection, it isn't going to stop.

And then on the referees again, the MSU guy the other day should have been nailed with a foul at minimum, probably a technical for the elbow thrown at Ellis. But good 'ol Eddy H just "talked" to him. That is one more problem that needs to be addressed. T him up, then talk with him.

[forevershockerfan]

Steve Kalocinski as I remember him was a rugged player that at times drew the assingnment of the other teams best players. Steve would cover them on defense like a 'cheap suit' and was very physical in his style of play within the confines of the rules. There was 1 game where he was guarding a key player for (Marquette?) and as I recall, there was a skirmish that followed and maybe an ejection. Mike Kennedy would remember these details. However, I never once felt like Steve was a cheap shot artist, but rather a tough player on both sides of the court that played a physical brand of ball, but also followed the rules. Not all of our opponets enjoyed X-Man's MTXE intense and rugged style of ball, but I was glad he was on our side!!! I'll hang up and listen.

[rjl]

I'm still trying to figure out what happened 50+ years ago and a thug punching a defenseless player in the groin Wednesday night have in common. I guess you are trying to tie it to racial/civil issue from the 50's thinking no one will argue against it to justify your point. Your assertion is about something few on here know about, let alone were alive at the time. A lot of improvements have taken place since then and trying to use your example as a crutch to make a point is far fetched and quite strange.
Try something else. 8)

I'm still not sure I completely understand the reference.

Assuming what you say is fact, are you making a glass house comparison?

It seems to me that you are trying to make a point that, imho, is at the root of many of our social problems today.

Just because 1 person does something wrong doesn't mean another gets a free pass.

As has been repeated in this thread already, the original poster said they "can't even entertain the notion that a Shocker would ever stoop that low", and 60shock responded with a memory of the Shockers doing just that.

Now, I'd be disinclined to believe that happened given the lack of any corroborating evidence in the 50 years since it's happened, but 60schock was merely rebutting a point that the thread was started on. What's so hard to understand about that?

And ShockRef, your continued attacking of posters on Shockernet or attributing their contentions to some conspirital agenda which you then attack like some tinfoil-hat wearing lunatic instead of debating the merits of the poster's argument is getting pretty old.

[McShocker]

I never cared for the way Jamar Howard represented my school, no matter how well he played. He should have been reeled in....his antics will always be a black eye on our University.

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who feels this way.

[shockball]

Reports of Excessive Gambling sideline Missouri Valley Conference referee.

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1132550/index.htm

This is the same era, maybe even the same year, as the game that is being discussed. I think at least the ref's have at least cleaned their acts up. :)