2017 Summer Pick-up Game Practice Reports?

[xazshox]

More on Zach Brown as an elite defender

I finally remembered where I read about Zach being a top 3 defender. CBS Sports came out with a Top 25 list recently of players they say have something to prove this coming season. Some of the players have great offensive potential but were overshadowed by other players on their teams who have since graduated or were drafted by the NBA. Zach was around 11th, & he was described as an elite defender who has not received the recognition he deserves yet.

[asiseeit]

I'm going to be a bit of a wet blanket. I feel too many of you may have
prematurely judged CJ. True, he has tremendous athleticism and potential
but please keep in mind the majority of his minutes have been in clean up
often playing against either other clean up players or tired beaten up ones.
Again, I think he has tremendous potential to be an outstanding player but
he really has not proven anything yet. I am confident he WILL in the future
but who knows how he will respond in tighter situations. I do believe his
game time ticket will be as a defensive specialist ala TC and ZB. He has ALL
the tools physically to be another TC or ZB but does he have the desire to be
that guy? We will see but I do believe that is the best avenue for more PT.

[ShockdaWorld]

So are you saying he is a stiff or our best defender?

He is a great defender, the best on our team, and a stopper.

[ShockdaWorld]

I'm going to be a bit of a wet blanket. I feel too many of you may have
prematurely judged CJ. True, he has tremendous athleticism and potential
but please keep in mind the majority of his minutes have been in clean up
often playing against either other clean up players or tired beaten up ones.
Again, I think he has tremendous potential to be an outstanding player but
he really has not proven anything yet. I am confident he WILL in the future
but who knows how he will respond in tighter situations. I do believe his
game time ticket will be as a defensive specialist ala TC and ZB. He has ALL
the tools physically to be another TC or ZB but does he have the desire to be
that guy? We will see but I do believe that is the best avenue for more PT.

I don't think anyone is saying he is there yet, only that he has that kind of ability. 3G said it, so I'm going to take his word for it.

[forevershockerfan]

To be a top 10 type defensive rated team, the Shocks obviously have several solid defenders led by ZB and MM. Then as our solid bench starts checking in, we keep up the defending pressure with solid players such as Kelly, etc. In the meanwhile, I keep hearing A.M. is going to be an added rim protector along with keen passing ability on offense that will be a nice addition for our bigs to be even be possibly improved over last Season.

[WstateU]

I finally remembered where I read about Zach being a top 3 defender. CBS Sports came out with a Top 25 list recently of players they say have something to prove this coming season. Some of the players have great offensive potential but were overshadowed by other players on their teams who have since graduated or were drafted by the NBA. Zach was around 11th, & he was described as an elite defender who has not received the recognition he deserves yet.

He is a great defender, the best on our team, and a stopper.

[BOBB]

I think Zach is a very good defender, a good player, and deserving of his starting role on the team. McDuffie is a more formidable defender with his length. Neither would qualify as a true "stopper" in my book. Good defenders on a good defensive team. Connor is the only weak spot defensively for our starting 5 and he suffers mostly due to comparison.

[WuShock16]

Connor is the only weak spot defensively for our starting 5 and he suffers mostly due to comparison.

Very true. Conner certainly isn't a bad defender...just has some limitations and looks weaker due to amazing defenders on his team.

Speaking of bad defense though, Conner has 15 blocks in 91 career games over his first 3 seasons. Normal, I suppose, for a 6'0 guard. Playing in 54 more games (due to playing a fourth year) and being eight inches taller, Doug McDermott had 14 career blocks.

[im4wsu]

While MM and ZB are very good on ball defenders, CF is just not. He gets beat on the first step way too often. He does have quick ups that allows him to block shots when face-to-face with the shooter (surprises me, frankly). CF plays very good team defense and helps out well which accounts for a good porton of his blocked shots. CF and ZB are about even on blocks and steals on a per-40-minute basis. I wish stats were published for deflections, though. MM has about one-half a steal more per 40 minutes than CF and ZB. By my faulty memory, most of those come from someone deflecting the ball and are team defense steals. MM also blocks about 25% more than CF and ZB, but is taller and, really, blocks are so few that it is probably not meaningful.

[1972Shocker]

I don't think CF was ever touted as a great defensive player. In fact, that was the biggest question mark about him when he joined the Shocks. I do think Conner has improved his defense significantly during his time at WSU but I don't think his god-given abilities will ever allow him to be an elite defender. But in my opinion CF isn't the worst defender on the team. Of the guys who played much I would say DW earned that distinction. I am very much hoping the DW has bought in to improving his defense this year. He seems to have the tools to be a solid defender if he makes a strong commitment to it.

ZB and MM are very tough defenders. One of the things that makes them so valuable is there verstatility as defenders as both are capable of guarding multiple positions which gives 3G the luxury of moving them around on defense depending on the opponent. I think LS and RK are good defenders but not as versatile as ZB and MM.

They guy who surprised me with his defenses was AR. Not saying he is elite but he was certainly better than I expected him to be as a freshman.

The guy who disappointed me a bit with his defense last year was Daishon. He made some good plays but was inconsistent. Perhaps, like with Austion, this was just a matter of my expectations being either too low or to high for those particular players. In any case, it will be interesting to see what SHJ can bring to the table defensively and how he will compare to the departed DS.

[shockmonster]

While MM and ZB are very good on ball defenders, CF is just not. He gets beat on the first step way too often. He does have quick ups that allows him to block shots when face-to-face with the shooter (surprises me, frankly). CF plays very good team defense and helps out well which accounts for a good porton of his blocked shots. CF and ZB are about even on blocks and steals on a per-40-minute basis. I wish stats were published for deflections, though. MM has about one-half a steal more per 40 minutes than CF and ZB. By my faulty memory, most of those come from someone deflecting the ball and are team defense steals. MM also blocks about 25% more than CF and ZB, but is taller and, really, blocks are so few that it is probably not meaningful.

I agree with your points. Conner's lateral quickness is not a strength, and he has difficulty fighting around screens. He does have other strengths and is a good team defender, but his on ball defense isn't where you'd like and his lack of height doesn't help him. Reaves also isn't a great on ball defender (lateral quickness is not good) but his height and high BBIQ hides some of his deficiencies.

[wichshock65]

Hey, quick question. Are there any 2017 summer pick-up game practice reports? Everytime i click on this thread I'm hoping someone has laid eyes on the guys and can give me a fix. I'm jonesing guys!

[forevershockerfan]

Hey, quick question. Are there any 2017 summer pick-up game practice reports? Everytime i click on this thread I'm hoping someone has laid eyes on the guys and can give me a fix. I'm jonesing guys!

It appears most of the Shockers will be back in town when classes for the Fall start back up. At that time, hopefully they will be scrimmaging again where SN can report as to what they witness.

[ShockCrazy]

I don't think CF was ever touted as a great defensive player. In fact, that was the biggest question mark about him when he joined the Shocks. I do think Conner has improved his defense significantly during his time at WSU but I don't think his god-given abilities will ever allow him to be an elite defender. But in my opinion CF isn't the worst defender on the team. Of the guys who played much I would say DW earned that distinction. I am very much hoping the DW has bought in to improving his defense this year. He seems to have the tools to be a solid defender if he makes a strong commitment to it.

ZB and MM are very tough defenders. One of the things that makes them so valuable is there verstatility as defenders as both are capable of guarding multiple positions which gives 3G the luxury of moving them around on defense depending on the opponent. I think LS and RK are good defenders but not as versatile as ZB and MM.

They guy who surprised me with his defenses was AR. Not saying he is elite but he was certainly better than I expected him to be as a freshman.

The guy who disappointed me a bit with his defense last year was Daishon. He made some good plays but was inconsistent. Perhaps, like with Austion, this was just a matter of my expectations being either too low or to high for those particular players. In any case, it will be interesting to see what SHJ can bring to the table defensively and how he will compare to the departed DS.

I would agree with this assessment with one exception. At least last year, LS was not a good defender. And maybe I'm crazy, but I think CF was actually a better defender. Now LS has the potential to be a good defender and certainly better than CF, but I don't think he was last year. Especially as we entered conference play, CF had better d-rating per 100, DWS/40, steal %, block %, and a lower foul rate in conference play.

[Cdizzle]

I would second that LS has a lot of room to grow defensively. And that is not a knock on LS. I think he will make significant improvement. Lest we forget, he was a freshman PG on a Top 20 team last year, and the best player in the conference. You can be really good and still have room to improve a lot. Defensive flaws of WSU players also tend to stand out a bit when compared to the aggregate of the group, and the recent history. One can be an above-average defender nationally (which he was, as a freshman no less) and look less than stellar when playing the year after senior-version RB and FVV, and alongside Zach Brown and Rashard Kelly.