Sorry Shockernet

[jocoshock]

So the university should be punished for something that someone else did that they knew nothing about?

I may be wrong, but wasn't WSU punished for Jones' transcript being wrong, which was the high school's fault?

As I recall at the time it was reported, that Ozell's transcript was not forged or altered. In most schools, overall GPA includes grades received for phys ed classes. At this school, which was a private school they weren't, and that's where the confusion came in. Don't know the details about who asked or didn't ask, or who was told or not told. The NCAA, if they thought WSU had purposely altered the transcript or had known about the no-credit situation, would surely have had WSU forfeit the games he played in.

The excuse the NCAA gave for hammering WSU was their "history" of infractions, which at that time would have totaled 5 in their history for all sports. KU wasn't far behind at that time, and certainly, the NCAA could have applied the same logic in 1988 or 2006.

[jocoshock]

Sorry, I'm just not buying the idea that the Jackson situation was innocent. It appears to fit the Tom Grant mold - identify a star player early and befriend him. Give him and his family things so that when it comes time to decide on a school the player feels some degree of obligation. When questioned, play the "prior friend" card. Remember Jaron Rush?

That is premeditated cheating.

And the KU grad was already associated with JR Giddens...so I doubt that meeting Jackson at a Giddens game was purely coincidental. Otherwise, why would the KU grad be so interested in befriending some kid in the audience....

All of this reminds me of a near miss WSU had with Cheese Johnson. Cheese was found to have made long distance calls using Campus phones without reimbursing the University. WSU would surely have been nailed for that except for one saving grace... Darnell Valentine was also caught doing the same thing at KU at the same time... They were allowed to pay the schools back. No penalites were assessed to either school. What do you think would have happened if only Cheese had been caught....

You decide...

[owenc]

Sorry, I'm just not buying the idea that the Jackson situation was innocent. It appears to fit the Tom Grant mold - identify a star player early and befriend him. Give him and his family things so that when it comes time to decide on a school the player feels some degree of obligation. When questioned, play the "prior friend" card.

The only problem with this theory is almost all of the things he "gave" to this family came after Jackson was already at KU. Nearly all the "benefits" that Jackson had to pay back was the value that the NCAA placed on the milage from him letting Jackson's mom ride along when he went to games at KU.

Again in order for this to benefit KU Jackson would have had to know ahead of time that his mom would be a car accident and not be able to drive to Lawrence a full 2 years after he signed with KU.

Before that his "gifts" to the family were things like letting Jackson and his brother sleep over at his house and taking them to movies and things like that.

Their relationship was much like Big Brothers/Big Sisters and from all readings was pretty innocent.

Chris

[WuDrWu]

AGAIN, to claim that, at the time of them "meeting", that the KU booster was oblivious to Mr Jackson being a potential recruit makes me throw up in my mouth a little.

Typical KU spin. Do you guys get together and work on the spin in packs or just come up with it on your own? It has to be a group effort because so many seem to tow the party line.

If it all happened exactly the way KU fans say it did, then the right thing to do would to be recuse themselves from the process and allow a talented player to go elsewhere.

I am so sick of KUFan defending their own cheating, while continuing to rail on WSU......well just let me say, more vomit.


AND if the roles were reversed, we all know what would happen. If it's not Roy trying to get WSU in trouble it's someone else. God forbid we get another big recruit that KU wants.....I promise you an investigation will be forthcoming.

[owenc]

AGAIN, to claim that, at the time of them "meeting", that the KU booster was oblivious to Mr Jackson being a potential recruit makes me throw up in my mouth a little.

Well they did meet at a basketball game but I'm sure that was part of their connection with each other. I'm sure this booster probably brought Jackson to KU's attention, not the other way around.

Typical KU spin. Do you guys get together and work on the spin in packs or just come up with it on your own? It has to be a group effort because so many seem to tow the party line.

I guess I'm just not so cynical about my fellow humans. Just like I'm not "sickened" with WSU boosters buying drinks for WSU basketball players.

This Jackson thing just seems particularly silly to me. Sure it can be portrayed as some sleezy car dealer "buying" a KU player but I just don't see it playing out that way in reality.

Movie tickets and car rides are not going to get a kid to go someplace he wouldn't already go. This particular "booster" doesn't have a history with any other kids. Seems to me that having sleepovers and helping the kid out isn't the best way to bribe a kid. He had even more contact with Jackson's younger brother than he did with Jackson and as far as I know he was never on KU's radar screen.

This was not Jaron Rush (a case where KU did what you suggest and walked away). This was a case of a guy befriending a couple of kids whose father had died and really making an impact in their lives.

I'm a Big Brother and I can tell you there are lots of great benefits to such a relationship that have nothing to do with basketball. If I thought there was a chance in hell KU would recruit my Little Brother to wrestle for them I'd be all over it in a second. Not to benefit KU but to benefit my little brother.

Chris

[jocoshock]

Sorry, I'm just not buying the idea that the Jackson situation was innocent. It appears to fit the Tom Grant mold - identify a star player early and befriend him. Give him and his family things so that when it comes time to decide on a school the player feels some degree of obligation. When questioned, play the "prior friend" card.

The only problem with this theory is almost all of the things he "gave" to this family came after Jackson was already at KU. Nearly all the "benefits" that Jackson had to pay back was the value that the NCAA placed on the milage from him letting Jackson's mom ride along when he went to games at KU.

Again in order for this to benefit KU Jackson would have had to know ahead of time that his mom would be a car accident and not be able to drive to Lawrence a full 2 years after he signed with KU.

Before that his "gifts" to the family were things like letting Jackson and his brother sleep over at his house and taking them to movies and things like that.

Their relationship was much like Big Brothers/Big Sisters and from all readings was pretty innocent.

Chris

Don Davis, a KU-educated engineer, introduced himself

Co-inky dink? I think not!!

:roll:

[WuDrWu]

Well they did meet at a basketball game but I'm sure that was part of their connection with each other. I'm sure this booster probably brought Jackson to KU's attention, not the other way around.

If this is true then it's another blantant violation.

I guess I'm just not so cynical about my fellow humans.

Good point and I confess I am more than guilty as charged and it has stung me in the past.

I'm a Big Brother and I can tell you there are lots of great benefits to such a relationship that have nothing to do with basketball.

Chris

Well done and you deserve congratulations. We need more people that are truly looking out for our youth.

[owenc]

Well done and you deserve congratulations. We need more people that are truly looking out for our youth.

I guess what I don't understand is why you'll congratulate me but curse Don Davis when both of us are willing to do the same thing.

Chris

[SubGod22]

Probably because you do it through big brothers and he does it through finding basketball players.


And the only reason KU walked away from JaRon was because of his comments about KU and how Roy coached.

[owenc]

Probably because you do it through big brothers and he does it through finding basketball players.

This just doesn't make any sense. There are far better, more efficient and less detectable ways to "buy" a player than be a father figure, take him to movies and invite the kids brother over for sleepovers. Not to mention promising to take his mother to KU games if she was ever in an accident and couldn't drive herself.

If Don Davis was just bribing a future KU player he didn't do a very good job of it.

Chris

[ISASO]

Do they have training classes for KU boosters on how to effectively establish a prior relationship with potentially-great hoopsters?

I can see Tom Grant running a clinic on a Saturday or writing a pamphlet for boosters wanting to help out in this way.

Surely if you choose the players wisely and "befriend" enough of them, at least one of them will "pay off", pun intended.

Tom seems to have perfected it...identify some potential ballers (if it's a whole family of them even better) and pay for their private schooling costs. It's probably a tax writeoff of some kind, you look like a community saint and it lines up some kids to attend your school to play ball. Then, because of your saintly generosity the school you support happens to make millions off the recruiting service you provide. A sweet deal indeed.

Sometimes, things go badly though and you have to repo the Geo Tracker you gave the kid as the final inducement to "make the right choice".

And then sometimes it gets even worse and someone writes a book about your exploits and exposes you for the cheater you are and exposes the school for condoning this - until they get caught - and then they have to pretend to disassociate themselves from you for a while. Translation - you got a little too brave and you need to "go underground" for a while. But it's OK, we have a few boosters who, like redshirted players, are coming off their disassociation period and have done some groundwork on a few really nice-sounding prospects. We'll have them kick it up a notch while you guys lay low for a while.

Remember, "COMPLIANCE DOESN'T SELL TICKETS!"