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A look at the state of the MVC

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  • A look at the state of the MVC

    With more writing on the wall of a WSU departure, it got me to thinking about what this season meant for the future of the conference. And while I don't like the RPI, it's visibility and continued use by the NCAA means I'll use it for the sake of this discussion.

    The desire is to be a perennial top-10 league. To get back toward that goal, we needed 2-3 more teams to finish in the RPI top-100 or at least close. In November that was a reasonable expectation. WSU and ISU were a given. The problem was that SIU, UNI and MSU (145, 160, 207, respectively) under-performed and really let the league down.

    SIU - They've lost some good players recently (Caroline, Olanyan) and graduate their guard tandem of Rodriguez and Vincent. O'Brien, Fletcher, Bol and Lloyd return, so there's hope for next year. I have no idea what recruits they have coming in, and little confidence Hinson can improve on this year's results. Two years from now? Better hope Fletcher and Lloyd can lead them.

    UNI - In spite of the legendary coaching acumen of Ben Jacobsen, I'm really down on this program. They lose two of their top three scorers in Morgan and Ashton. Halderman was a nice surprise, but McCloud was a disappointment. The Panthers get one more year of Koch, Carlson and Lohaus. Whatever magic wand Jacobsen seemed to be weilding in Frostbite Falls seems to be going limp. Two years from now? Bennie boy better do a bang-up job on his recruiting.

    MSU - Huge, huge, huge waste of talent in Springfield. I think Mike Cohen could have coached these guys to a solid 3rd league finish with an RPI better than 125. The only impact player loss is Miller, which could be addition-by-subtraction given his awful BBIQ (according to their fans, at least). They have to be better next year. If not, Lusk will be gone. It's clear MSU can attract talent. They need a program leader to reach their potential.

    Loyola and Bradley should each take steps forward next year. The Ramblers have more talent coming in and Bradley is continuing to improve.

    Along with ISU, I expect these five teams to really battle for the 2-7 spots next year. As for InSU, UE and DU? Yawn. League doormats for the foreseeable future.

    What I take away from all of this is that when comparing the MVC now, with the mid-2000s MVC, is that sans WSU and CU there is a notable dropoff in coaching and player talent. Combine that with the institutional financial woes of the three key programs I mentioned above, I don't see a bright future for the MVC. WSU could keep the league in the national conciousness to a point, but I fear we'll eventually get pulled underwater with the rest of the conference.

    The AAC is our Obi-Wan Kenobi. Join them, we must.

  • #2
    Bradley and perhaps Drake are the only teams I expect to see improve next year. The MVC (sans us) is going to be absolutely horrible IMO.

    I was reading an article on university endowments the other day and saw that SIU's is only ~$16 million, which is almost unbelievably low. Coupled with its enrollment death spiral, I would wager that program never returns to relevance.

    Time to go (it has been for a while of course).

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    • #3
      I expected to see an image of a flaming dumpster when I opened this thread.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by RoyalShock View Post
        SIU - They've lost some good players recently (Caroline, Olanyan) and graduate their guard tandem of Rodriguez and Vincent. O'Brien, Fletcher, Bol and Lloyd return, so there's hope for next year. I have no idea what recruits they have coming in, and little confidence Hinson can improve on this year's results. Two years from now? Better hope Fletcher and Lloyd can lead them.
        Isn't O'Brien a senior? I think he's done.

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        • #5
          14-4 used to win the league. No way to skate through Springfield, Peoria, Normal, Cedar Falls, Wichita and Omaha without a few losses. The middle of the league is really hollowed out. The end of the scheduling mandate, low salaries, FCS football, and monopolistic practices of power conferences has spelled the end of the MVC as a competitive conference. The MVC ship is headed to Horizon/OVC depths and we don't want to be on it when it does.

          At the end of the day there is a strong correlation to the product and the resources allocated to it. MVC schools currently do not have the resources to commit to sustained success in these programs. Any coach that has a little success is quickly wooed away. It is a shame, because there is a lot of history in the MVC. But history and $2 will buy you a cup of coffee...or Evansville's recruiting budget.
          Wichita State, home of the All-Americans.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Shoxfan11 View Post
            Isn't O'Brien a senior? I think he's done.
            I was thinking he was, but when I looked at their roster page on ESPN, he's listed as a Jr. If he is a senior, SIU's ceiling for next year probably doesn't move.

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            • #7
              I liked what I read in that article posted elsewhere on SN today that talked about the MVC without WSU. It pointed out that the only thing that could at least attempt to save the top schools in the MVC, Summit and Horizon is for 3-5 top teams from each league to join up. I'd like to see that happen regardless of whatever WSU does. Although it would surely mean that the remaining leftover schools would be completely toast.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by RoyalShock View Post
                I was thinking he was, but when I looked at their roster page on ESPN, he's listed as a Jr. If he is a senior, SIU's ceiling for next year probably doesn't move.
                He's listed as a senior on their website: http://www.siusalukis.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=202

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Dave Stalwart View Post
                  I liked what I read in that article posted elsewhere on SN today that talked about the MVC without WSU. It pointed out that the only thing that could at least attempt to save the top schools in the MVC, Summit and Horizon is for 3-5 top teams from each league to join up. I'd like to see that happen regardless of whatever WSU does. Although it would surely mean that the remaining leftover schools would be completely toast.
                  I also liked the idea and I think its been brought up before in the realignment thread. I did disagree with some of the schools the article listed (such as ISUb) but you could make a strong BB league by taking the best programs from the MVC, Horizon, Summit and a couple of other leagues. The most important thing when selecting teams for the new league would be picking the schools that are willing and able to support their programs at a reasonable level, for instance I would include Bradley even though their team sucks right now.
                  Its a good landing if you can walk away, its a great landing if the plane can be reused the next day.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by RoyalShock View Post
                    WSU could keep the league in the national conciousness to a point, but I fear we'll eventually get pulled underwater with the rest of the conference.

                    The AAC is our Obi-Wan Kenobi. Join them, we must.
                    “Losers Average Losers.” ― Paul Tudor Jones

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                    • #11
                      MVC is not a state.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Play Angry View Post
                        I was reading an article on university endowments the other day and saw that SIU's is only ~$16 million, which is almost unbelievably low. Coupled with its enrollment death spiral, I would wager that program never returns to relevance.
                        Seriously? $16 million? Forget about the program ever returning. That entire university could close with numbers like that.

                        As a comparison, the four D2 universities have endowments that are substantially larger than that. Washburn even has a 9-digit endowment.
                        78-65

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by WuShock16 View Post
                          Seriously? $16 million? Forget about the program ever returning. That entire university could close with numbers like that.

                          As a comparison, the four D2 universities have endowments that are substantially larger than that. Washburn even has a 9-digit endowment.
                          I can't imagine that's accurate. Few years back even ESU had an $80 mil endowment.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by RoyalShock View Post

                            MSU - Huge, huge, huge waste of talent in Springfield. I think Mike Cohen could have coached these guys to a solid 3rd league finish with an RPI better than 125. The only impact player loss is Miller, which could be addition-by-subtraction given his awful BBIQ (according to their fans, at least). They have to be better next year. If not, Lusk will be gone. It's clear MSU can attract talent. They need a program leader to reach their potential.
                            MSU is not going to get any better without scheduling up. Their non-con was total trash. They could have went 14-4 (being swept by us and ISUr) and still had a horrible RPI. Lusk and their AD - Moats - are both trying to save their asses by scheduling terrible teams and getting a better win/loss record. It's smoke and mirrors.

                            I would guess that they take some buy games next season to help make up their $750k budget deficit. I can guarantee they will be rooting for WSU to make a run in the tournament so they get some of our $$$

                            According to some on the Bear board - several of the players are lacking in bbiq. They can't even go thru a pre-game walk thru because Miller has a severe case of CRS. There may be a lack of coaching but you also have to have competent players that can understand what you are trying to teach them

                            I'm not defending Lusk at all. He does recruit some good athletes. He just does some really strange things and doesn't seem to get along with his best players (Marcus Marshall, Chris Kendrix, Kyle Weems, etc)

                            I thought they gave us the most competition at STL and will probably win the MVC next year (if WSU is gone). If WSU isn't in the MVC picture next year - they may be dancing again.

                            What few fans they still have are really po'd over Lusk not being fired. It's going to take some wins over good opponents to bring them back. Their attendance numbers next season could be in the 100's

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Jhook89 View Post
                              MVC is not a state.
                              Other than a state of confusion.
                              “Losers Average Losers.” ― Paul Tudor Jones

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