WSU vs ISU (red) thread

[SHOXAAC]

It's possible, but only if we hold them to 35% shooting and we shoot 50-55% from the 2 and 3 and hit at least 80% from the line.

I see what you did there you wily fox you!!!

[SHOXAAC]

It's possible, but only if we hold them to 35% shooting and we shoot 50-55% from the 2 and 3 and hit at least 80% from the line.

We also better duck...posting in the middle of this multi-participant lovers quarel.

[William]

This team doesn't understand offensive EFFICIENCY wins games, too many guys appear to be firing up ill advised shots for fear of not getting another touch that possession. The culprits need to decide if they care more about their personal stat line or becoming a great team. This was the big threes biggest strength.

We have great pieces if they will play within their roles and share the ball more, we have 4 guys that can score inside
And a plethora that can knock down a standard open three in rhythm. We are a little short on good slashers but Landry is a good end of clock option for that.

Early in tonight's game Shaq did some great things, his standard great post moves and then he did something rarely
Seen from this Shocker team, he kicked it back out of the post to a wide open CF for a in rhythm 3 which he promptly
Knocked down. That's winning basketball and the lack of it is why this team is struggling to meet its potential.

[another shocker]

i would agree that the talent is there this year, possibly (two more months to know definitively). but it's marshall that i would like to see pull it together. this team, so far, folds rather easily and quickly in big games. i'm not sure marshall has their respect.. team chemistry gets a barely passing grade.

[Dan]

i would agree that the talent is there this year, possibly (two more months to know definitively). but it's marshall that i would like to see pull it together. this team, so far, folds rather easily and quickly in big games. i'm not sure marshall has their respect.. team chemistry gets a barely passing grade.

Everyone in the Valley is going to run a zone against us. They do this because they know we have superior athletes and they have to hang their hops that we have a cold shooting night, which happens to every team. Loyola would've beaten us had we missed a few more 3s. We just have to be better prepared against the zone going forward, especially when we have a rematch against the birds.

[pinstripers]

We played smaller than we are.

Shaq was better, at least for a while.

Daishon looked scared.

Reaves got hammered going to the rack, at least twice, no call.

We need an enforcer. I bet we go get one.

They don't have better talent 1-10. 1-7?

What was Hawkins doing? Signing to a deaf aunt in the stands?

Zero surprise that we lost up there.

Disappointed that we looked shaken.

[Slalomshocker]

Prime example of the lack of toughness from last night was when Hawkins had just picked up his 3rd foul, Willis got the ball posted up against Teddy, instead of going right through his chest and to the rim to try and draw #4 he backed out to 16ft and took the jump shot. He hit the shot, and he's very comfortable out there, but knowing game situations is part of being a good player. He took the easy way out.

It wasn't just Willis last night, but that is the best example of the lack of toughness I can think of a day later.

Quick rant- Zone defense and the drive and dish wide open 3. Can we please not lose our next game because of those? Those two things are responsible for 5 of our last 6 losses outside the dance.

[pinstripers]

Adams remarked on that at the time, but I thought Willis was moving away from a double team

[1972Shocker]

It seems pretty apparent that this team has difficulty dealing with a good, quality opponent. I think it also pretty much cements the notion, that, Yes, Virginia, we do miss Fred, Ron and Evan. Not so much their physical talents but the sky high intangibles they brought to the table. Mental toughness, desire to win/refusal to lose, BBIQ.

We seem to consistently get sped up against the better teams on our schedule and end up forcing a lot of things and making a lot of poor decisions.

Not sure that you can easily teach those intangibles but it has to be more difficult when you play a generally weak/ordinary schedule where you can succeed despite shortcomings in those areas and then every now and again the team finds itself up against an opponent that hits back and hits back hard and they simply don't have the experience or capacity to respond well.

I think we're still going to have what most programs would consider a good year but probably not what we have been used to past 5 years, especially with regards to post-season success.

I hope the Shocks prove me wrong but I am not confident that they will.

[proshox]

It seems pretty apparent that this team has difficulty dealing with a good, quality opponent. I think it also pretty much cements the notion, that, Yes, Virginia, we do miss Fred, Ron and Evan. Not so much their physical talents but the sky high intangibles they brought to the table. Mental toughness, desire to win/refusal to lose, BBIQ.

We seem to consistently get sped up agains the better teams on our schedule and end up forcing a lot of things and making a lot of poor decisions.

Not sure that you can easily teach those intangibles but it has to be more difficult when you play a generally weak/ordinary schedule where you can succeed despite shortcomings in those areas and then every now and again the team finds itself up against an opponent that hits back and hits back hard and they simply don't have the experience or capacity to respond well.

I think we still going to have what most programs would consider a good year but probably not what we have been used to past 5 years, especially with regards to post-season success.

I hope the Shocks prove me wrong but I am not confident that they will.

This schedule has made it difficult to improve. So much fool's gold between real games where you would potentially learn something about what works and doesn't work against teams the play defense.

I was never expecting a win last night, but I was disappointed that the same issues we saw in the prior loss looked unresolved.

[forevershockerfan]

It seems pretty apparent that this team has difficulty dealing with a good, quality opponent. I think it also pretty much cements the notion, that, Yes, Virginia, we do miss Fred, Ron and Evan. Not so much their physical talents but the sky high intangibles they brought to the table. Mental toughness, desire to win/refusal to lose, BBIQ.

We seem to consistently get sped up agains the better teams on our schedule and end up forcing a lot of things and making a lot of poor decisions.

Not sure that you can easily teach those intangibles but it has to be more difficult when you play a generally weak/ordinary schedule where you can succeed despite shortcomings in those areas and then every now and again the team finds itself up against an opponent that hits back and hits back hard and they simply don't have the experience or capacity to respond well.

I think we still going to have what most programs would consider a good year but probably not what we have been used to past 5 years, especially with regards to post-season success.

I hope the Shocks prove me wrong but I am not confident that they will.

Your post takes me back to not only 3G warned of, and we discussed it on here often before the Season started. That notion was for us to Expect some ups with downs this Season. This team gets on a roll and we forget this until we play a tough team and the reminder stings us like an angry wasp. We have no Seniors in our rotation along with no FVV or Baker. Yes, we could just pull off another Valley Ship but can we win the Lew for the 2nd time ever? There is room for improvement as we trek onward to the midpoint of the Valley Race. I still like our quality depth but how tough minded as a team will we be when the going gets tough because we Know it will happen?

Last night MM and Shamet struggled in the 1st half. MM took us on his shoulders early in the 2nd half and we got within 2 points of the Birds. Later, Shamet started hitting shots but it was too little, too late. Against their funky zone, it seemed we had the wrong people gunning up 3's not to mention our entry passes were too often easily intercepted. We have the talent but we have a ways to go yet with room for improvement. 3G will keep us focused and is still the best Valley Coach IMO and he will dig the best the Shocks can do out of them. I'm not worried but trying to remember the ups and downs as we move forward.

[another shocker]

offensive play against the zone was bad enough from the shockers, but in the second half ilsu was 13-21 from the floor?

[AndShock]

The thing with the zone offense is that last night it didn't really seem like it was Illinois State causing the problems like zone defenses have done to us in the past. We pissed down our legs immediately both times when they switched to it by passing it directly to Illinois State defenders. After a couple possessions we would have wide open 3s in the corner or wide open shots from the free throw line and I think we made one of those. We probably wouldn't have been able to withstand ISUr going full UNI from 3 had we made some shots but it wouldn't have been as bad of a blowout as it was. Imo, we didn't seem near as inept last night as we did in the same game last year. We play that same game again from last night and we probably win a couple. Last year I think we could've played that game 100 times and wouldn't have broke 60 points once.

[another shocker]

The thing with the zone offense is that last night it didn't really seem like it was Illinois State causing the problems like zone defenses have done to us in the past. We pissed down our legs immediately both times when they switched to it by passing it directly to Illinois State defenders. After a couple possessions we would have wide open 3s in the corner or wide open shots from the free throw line and I think we made one of those. We probably wouldn't have been able to withstand ISUr going full UNI from 3 had we made some shots but it wouldn't have been as bad of a blowout as it was. Imo, we didn't seem near as inept last night as we did in the same game last year. We play that same game again from last night and we probably win a couple. Last year I think we could've played that game 100 times and wouldn't have broke 60 points once.

offense gets a c grade. but what about allowing ilsu 13-21 from the field in the second half? defense gets an f grade.

[ShockTalk]

It seems pretty apparent that this team has difficulty dealing with a good, quality opponent. I think it also pretty much cements the notion, that, Yes, Virginia, we do miss Fred, Ron and Evan. Not so much their physical talents but the sky high intangibles they brought to the table. Mental toughness, desire to win/refusal to lose, BBIQ.

We seem to consistently get sped up against the better teams on our schedule and end up forcing a lot of things and making a lot of poor decisions.

Not sure that you can easily teach those intangibles but it has to be more difficult when you play a generally weak/ordinary schedule where you can succeed despite shortcomings in those areas and then every now and again the team finds itself up against an opponent that hits back and hits back hard and they simply don't have the experience or capacity to respond well.

I think we're still going to have what most programs would consider a good year but probably not what we have been used to past 5 years, especially with regards to post-season success.

I hope the Shocks prove me wrong but I am not confident that they will.

Let's remember that our leadership, future, and star players, IMO, are McDuffie, Shamet, and Reaves. A soph and 2 freshmen. There were posters in that poll pre-season that thought this team would win 30-31 games in the regular season.

When Fred, Ron, and Wessel were sophomores and led us to a 31-0 regular season, they had a few others who helped with that leadership. 4 seniors including Early and an important junior named Cotton. This team, while it may have a future Early, VanVleet, and Baker, does not have those seniors, including an AA, nor do they have a junior Cotton. Nobody on this team come close to an Early or Cotton to help McDuffie, Shamet, and Reaves or anybody else.

Smith is a first year JUCO. So was Carter for that 31-0 team. CF is an experienced player, but his intangibles aren't Wessel. This team has juniors Morris, Kelly, Nurger, and Brown. FVV and Bake had seniors Lufile, Colbey, and Wiggins. Willis is very good, but he's a raw 1st year D-I player.

Position by position this current team has talent, the best of which is young and/or inexperienced for the most part. That 13-14 team had FVV, Baker, Early, and Cotton for stars and Lufile, Colbey, and Wiggins for seniors, all of these players being NCAA Tournament experienced players.

Last year, FVV, Baker, and Wessel went 16-2 in the Valley and lost in the Valley semis. They also had another senior helping in Grady. This was a Valley that probably wasn't as strong as this year's Valley. Yet there is a lot of "woe is me" if this team doesn't do as well or better.

All of the above are some of the reasons I didn't see this year's Shockers winning more than 24-25 games this season. I thought that was a fair expectation for this team. They still have a lot of time to improve, gain more confidence, and add some swagger. I think they will.