Exempt Tourney Performance Under Marshall

[WUpigsooie]

The bottom line for me relative to this discussion is this: There are only 5 schools in the US that have made it to the Top 32 at the Dance the last 5 yrs, & WSU is one of those 5 schools.

This to me makes the record in other tournaments all the more perplexing.
Again it's not "bad" just strange. I want to chalk it up to small sample size but it's not THAT small.

[RoyalShock]

I agree that we have little room for error, but I look at the team and I see a lot of potential. With Marshall's coaching, this potential will be realized and I fully expect us to win in the Lou and make the tourney again.

Since we won't be undefeated going into Arch Madness we won't be allowed to win.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

It's been a ruse all these years. JH4P and Fev are really Siamese twins and LTAO at our perception and response to their keystone cops routine seen on a regular basis here at SN. I figured it out long ago, the rest of you knuckleheads are still on the hook!!!

From July 2014... 2 years ago...

For all you who read shockernet but never post, I might as well come out and admit it.

I am EVERY poster on Shockernet. I am Fever. I am Doc. I am Kung Wu.

I am JH4P. Actually, I AM JAMAR HOWARD HIMSELF!!!!

If you try to register, you will see that the whole website is a sham. It is simply my own creation as a way to entertain myself by setting up multiple personalities to argue with each other.

Sorry to disappoint all you “non-posters” who like to read this site. Don’t believe me? Just try to register and make a post. I dare ya!

[Bluzrover]

What I was expecting to see were the results of those tournaments in context with Marshall's yearly RPI breakdown. In other words, had you listed the results of each tournament and the respective RPI of the participants alongside each year of Marshall's tenure, we might have seen some sort of trend.

I'm speculating (because I'm too lazy to look it up) that each year the competition got a little tougher because Marshall's teams got better and WSU received invitations to the better tournaments. Success begats success, if you will.

Another assumption is that Marshall's teams aren't quite ready for primetime early in the season because his players are not the 4 and 5 star athletes that typically make up the roster of those top 25 RPI teams we're playing in those early tournaments. I think the recent results at the B4A typify this observation. Wins vs loses only tells part of the story. We were competitive against UL and MSU but just couldn't finish either off.

Finally, despite the record, the fact that WSU gets invited to these tournaments is something I'm sure 3G points to during recruiting visits. Particularly the more prestigious tournaments like the B4A which all the pundits pointed to as one of the top holiday tournaments of the year. That's a huge selling point. I'm pretty sure there were several potential 3, 4 and 5 star recruits watching the B4A games and saw the video of the players from WSU, Baylor and MSU wandering around Paradise Island and filed that away for future reference.

Of course, it probably would have been beneficial had we gone 2 and 1 as opposed to 1 and 2, but nonetheless, having a guy like Dan Dakich drool all over himself talking about what a great program Gregg has built at Wichita State doesn't hurt!

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

What I was expecting to see were the results of those tournaments in context with Marshall's yearly RPI breakdown. In other words, had you listed the results of each tournament and the respective RPI of the participants alongside each year of Marshall's tenure, we might have seen some sort of trend.

I'm speculating (because I'm too lazy to look it up) that each year the competition got a little tougher because Marshall's teams got better and WSU received invitations to the better tournaments. Success begats success, if you will.

I didn't see any pattern in competition getting tougher over the years. #28 Pitt was 7 years ago. Eventual National Champ UConn was 6 years ago. Just two years ago, #70 GW was the only top 100 game. SOS in these tourneys has fluxuated seemingly randomly, although yes, this year (LSU, Louisville, and MSU) was a nice uptick in SOS.

Also of interest, the 2011-2012 squad was full of Seniors (Stutz, Murry, Ragland, Kyles, Smith) yet they went 1-2 against 3 eventual NCAA at-large teams (Colorado-W, Alabama-L,Temple-L)
The next two seasons, with much more youthful teams, the Shox went 2-0 vs the "good teams", beating top 50 opponents Iowa and BYU.

There really weren't any obvious patterns over the 8 years, and part of that is due to such small sample sizes (usully only 1-2 good opponents per year). I think the sum of the 8 years might barely be a large enough sample to draw conclusions, but even there I'm hesitant. Just thought the info was worth sharing for others to digest and comment.

[Cdizzle]

Oh yeah. Pitt. That game can pretty much be thrown out too. Fricking NCAA.

What is WSU's record in games with a starting PG?

[ShockerFever]

Can we compare in-season tournament statistics between WSU and a handful of similar programs over the last several years? Is it just a WSU thing or do these results happen to EVERYBODY on our playing field?

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Can we compare in-season tournament statistics between WSU and a handful of similar programs over the last several years? Is it just a WSU thing or do these results happen to EVERYBODY on our playing field?

Based on 30 seconds of skimming Gonzaga's record in these tourneys the past decade or so, they appear to have kicked butt. As in, they probably have a 60%-70% winning percentage vs the top 50 in these things.

Just one example of course. Maybe I'll dig deeper some other time.

[ShockerFever]

Based on 30 seconds of skimming Gonzaga's record in these tourneys the past decade or so, they appear to have kicked butt. As in, they probably have a 60%-70% winning percentage vs the top 50 in these things.

Just one example of course. Maybe I'll dig deeper some other time.

Comparing ourselves to Gonzaga is an automatic win.

Next.

[shocksrbest]

I think JH4Ps observations are relevant, but I don't think there is any real insight to be gained. Versus HCGMs outstanding performance since 2011, early season exempt tournaments have not been on the same level.

Post season is 15-4 since 2011 as well. I agree with those who say the start is tough but the finish is much better. Coach's value and ability are much more relevant at the end of the season than the beginning...and the Valley coffers thank him for that.

[AZ Shocker]

There really weren't any obvious patterns over the 8 years, and part of that is due to such small sample sizes (usully only 1-2 good opponents per year). I think the sum of the 8 years might barely be a large enough sample to draw conclusions, but even there I'm hesitant. Just thought the info was worth sharing for others to digest and comment.

There's the "geniuos" statistian I've come to know these years on ShockerNet. Good on you Jamar...good on you. Keep it up man...

[another shocker]

There's the "geniuos" statistian I've come to know these years on ShockerNet. Good on you Jamar...good on you. Keep it up man...

shocker fever and jamar howard 4 president are flip sides of the same coin. one should be banned and one is an obvious troll. they're like the bookend forwards of shockernet.. in a mike cohen way.

wichita state wasn't favored to win any of those tournaments. not a one. not even close. strangely enough, they were, all of the sudden, favored over louisville last week.

[Good News]

The bottom line for me relative to this discussion is this: There are only 5 schools in the US that have made it to the Top 32 at the Dance the last 5 yrs, & WSU is one of those 5 schools.

Wouldn't this be 4 years since we lost to VCU in the first round in 2012?

[ShockingButTrue]

shocker fever and jamar howard 4 president are flip sides of the same coin. one should be banned and one is an obvious troll. they're like the bookend forwards of shockernet.. in a mike cohen way.

wichita state wasn't favored to win any of those tournaments. not a one. not even close. strangely enough, they were, all of the sudden, favored over louisville last week.

[Play Angry]

We were actually favored to win (and won) the Cancun Challenge and Guardians Classic in 12-13 and 13-14.

Also, we were favored to win the Diamondhead Classic in 14-15 when we lost to GW in the title game. That is 3 out of the last 4 years where we were the favorites to win (1 seed, favored in every game) to win.