Exempt Tourney Performance Under Marshall

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Just for reference, here is a list of WSU's final KenPom ranks under Marshall.

2008: 155
2009: 134
2010: 64
2011: 27
2012: 11
2013: 17
2014: 6
2015: 13
2016: 13
2017: ?? (Currently 23rd)

I'm pretty willing to write off the first 2 seasons as Marshall getting things set up. Let's ignore those and focus on this most recent 8 years (this year included) and see how WSU has fared in exempt tournaments against the quality non-con opponents that we all love to see. I mean, that's the biggest draw for playing in those tournaments, right?

Last 8 exempt tournaments:
vs. KenPom top 25: 0-3
vs. KenPom 26-50: 2-5
vs. KenPom 51-100: 2-2

No, I'm not concluding Marshall should be fired, or even complaining about his overall results. Marshall has indeed been wildly successful at WSU the past 8 seasons.

I'm also not saying WSU should stop playing in these tournaments. I'm still 100% in favor of continuing with the best exempt tourneys that WSU can find.

What I am saying, however, is that WSU doesn't seem to have had much success with these early neutral court challenges. I'm curious what others think. Is this just a fluke due to small sample size? Is there a rhyme or reason to this?

(For those who care, the games I ignored in Marshall's first 2 seasons included a win over #67 and losses to #10, 31, and 41. Marshall is 5-13 overall in his career at WSU vs top 100 teams in exempt tourneys.)

[ShockerFever]

I was wondering when JH4P was gonna chime in given the recent "pitfalls". It was only a matter of time.

What's WSU's NCAA Tournament history during that same time period?

[im4wsu]

Anecdotally, Fred's injury accounts for three losses, so 4-10 could have easily been 7-7. This year we were 1-2 with no seniors. This early in the season that is really tough.

I won't even get into the "tough" end of game calls we've suffered.

Let's see how we do next year with a more "veteran" and hopefully healthy lineup.

[Cdizzle]

I'm not sure where last year's teams fall in that listing, but you can pretty much asterisk those, in my opinion. (Yes, they count. No, I'm not going to hold them against Marshall.)

There have definitely been some missed opportunities. There have also been some oddities (see also: UConn). I can get your sentiment though. And I don't want to call it flukey. The March results would certainly seem to indicate that Marshall can have his teams ready to compete with and beat anyone in the country by that time. Now that the program is well-established and you're replacing good players with good players, I think it's fair to start hoping for a little better early-season success against top-end competition. Unfortunately, I think with the sample size it's really hard to account for last year without wildly skewing the numbers in either direction.

[BostonWu]

Gotta factor in Cooz Vegas buffet debacle into that record

[Steeleshocker]

Gotta factor in Cooz Vegas buffet debacle into that record

That was Turgeon

[Shocker-maniac]

Gotta factor in Cooz Vegas buffet debacle into that record

What happened?

[ArtVandalay]

What happened?

Food poisoning if my memory hasn't failed me.

[DUShock]

Bad sushi for Cooz. It was bad news indeed.

[Shocker-maniac]

So, he went to a Vegas buffet and got food poisoning? Did his teammates go to the buffet with him? Or did he go by himself? What did he eat that caused him to get sick? Mushrooms? Seafood? Sushi? Did others on the team get sick? If not, isn't that a bit fishy?

[pinstripers]

It was the World Buffet at the Rio. They all ate there as a team.

[Dave Stalwart]

Some would say it was quite the gut check for PJ...

[wusphlash]

So, he went to a Vegas buffet and got food poisoning? Did his teammates go to the buffet with him? Or did he go by himself? What did he eat that caused him to get sick? Mushrooms? Seafood? Sushi? Did others on the team get sick? If not, isn't that a bit fishy?

He went to the buffet with Cousin Eddie. Either ate something green or yellow.

[Ashockalypse]

Just for reference, here is a list of WSU's final KenPom ranks under Marshall.

2008: 155
2009: 134
2010: 64
2011: 27
2012: 11
2013: 17
2014: 6
2015: 13
2016: 13
2017: ?? (Currently 23rd)

I'm pretty willing to write off the first 2 seasons as Marshall getting things set up. Let's ignore those and focus on this most recent 8 years (this year included) and see how WSU has fared in exempt tournaments against the quality non-con opponents that we all love to see. I mean, that's the biggest draw for playing in those tournaments, right?

Last 8 exempt tournaments:
vs. KenPom top 25: 0-3
vs. KenPom 26-50: 2-5
vs. KenPom 51-100: 2-2

No, I'm not concluding Marshall should be fired, or even complaining about his overall results. Marshall has indeed been wildly successful at WSU the past 8 seasons.

I'm also not saying WSU should stop playing in these tournaments. I'm still 100% in favor of continuing with the best exempt tourneys that WSU can find.

What I am saying, however, is that WSU doesn't seem to have had much success with these early neutral court challenges. I'm curious what others think. Is this just a fluke due to small sample size? Is there a rhyme or reason to this?

(For those who care, the games I ignored in Marshall's first 2 seasons included a win over #67 and losses to #10, 31, and 41. Marshall is 5-13 overall in his career at WSU vs top 100 teams in exempt tourneys.)

I'm pretty sure I've thrown up on my iPad every time I've read one of your posts. And speaking for Coach only in this one instance, I know he appreciates the understanding you express and that you are not firing him. If only you could be the athletic director.

[Dave Stalwart]

But what is Marshall's record against top 100 teams in actual postseason tourneys though?

It looks like WSU struggles in November against top 100 teams, but over the course of the season, the team seems to catch up and finish strong year after year. That tells me that the coaching is not a problem at all. If anything, it is probably that it takes time to develop players and teach them his system. Once they get it, they finish strong. Maybe I'm wrong. Never thought about it before.