WSU vs Louisville

[ShockTalk]

A team learns more from defeat than victory, and this game will be far more valuable than the blowout wins we've had so far in the season. We now know who should be starting and who shouldn't, where our offense should come from and where it shouldn't, and how the team responds to pressure.

Louisville didn't play all that well, we just played badly. I know that is sometimes what it looks like when you face a team with a good defense, but honestly we made mental mistake after mental mistake and got tight and much of it wasn't from the defense. The defense didn't hold us to 1-8(?) FT shooting in the first half, it didn't compel us to drive into 3 players time and time again.

We need to:

* Focus on jump shots. We are shitty in the paint, minus McDuffie or Shaq. We have lots of jump shooters.
* Run a LOT of FT drills. One reason we suck in the paint is the free license to tackle us. Going 0-2 or 0-1 in a 1&1 is a TO, and we've done that a lot.
* Start McDuffie over Kelly. Kelly is our worst offensive player, McDuffie our best. Kelly can't finish through contact or shoot FTs and isn't a jump shooter.
* Work on pass outs. We drove too deep quite often and a 2 foot shot against a 3 trees is worse than an uncontested 20 foot jump shot. Louisville passed out after drives.
* Get Willis and Frankamp some confidence. They are both capable of being redhot scorers, but Willis gets shaken and Conner just doesn't shoot. Willis also needs to pass.
* Keep the effort and focus up. When Louisville punched us in the mouth, we starting giving up easy rebounds and buckets and didn't fight hard for balls.
* Have a plan before we get the ball. Against a zone, the key is knowing what do as the pass is in the air. Wait and think, and the defense adjusts. We were taking 2-3 seconds to move the ball or drive.
* Feed the hot hand.

Despite getting shaken and losing our mental composure, we had a chance to beat a top 10 team and possibly the best defense in college basketball. A little time and reflection could make us a dangerous out in March, but we aren't there yet mentally or strategically. We have a better idea of what offense we need to run and the type of effort it takes to win a high level ball game now than we did before tip-off and that's a positive. Our identity is starting to take shape, and once we get a better idea of who we are and who we need to be we'll be able to turn games like this into wins.

I like everything you said, but I'll make a strong guess that most of it IS being work on by the staff.

A lack of experience is our biggest problem currently. Gaining that experience with a basically young team will be our biggest asset in the future. 3 of our 4 rotation guards have very little D-I game experience, two with 5 games, one with 8. Our best option for PF is in the same boat and our best overall player is barely a sophomore. We have no seniors.

I know that Brown and more so, Kelly, as juniors appear to be more roll players. As Willis gains more experience, he will take minutes from Kelly and push Duff more to the 3. Also, I'd like to see MM playing 28-32 minimum against tough opponents. In those tough games, we need MM for 32 and Willis for 22 minutes. That leaves 26 for Brown and Kelly.

[Shocker1976]

On the post game show MM said "They had some big dudes on that team..."
He also said they were surprised UL played a match-up zone on defense. They didn't prepare for that, assumed they would be in man-to-man.

I did not get to watch any of the game due to Thanksgiving obligations and have not read all of the pages of this topic; regardless, your post makes the most sense to me as to why the Shockers lost. Rick Pitino did not get into the basketball hall of fame on his looks and social contacts.

Your quote of HC3G "...surprised UL played a match-up zone on defense" and "...didn't prepare for that, assumed they would be in man-to-man" informs why the Shockers lost - game preparation and coaching. From the box score appears HC3G conducted a brief clinic on the match-up zone during half-time which resulted in the Shockers winning the second half; but lost the game due to the hole they dug for themselves in the first half.

IMO an extremely valuable learning experience for this young Shocker team; I like our chances against MSU and remain confident in my prediction the Shockers will hit the 30 win market for the season.

[top20shock]

Learning lesson for WSU and their newcomers. I wasn't really all that impressed with Louisville - overall I thought it was a lost opportunity by WSU. Tomorrow is an important day and team just needs to put today behind them.

This. That little squirrel Pitino will get his in the end. I think Marshall will do it to him. I feel it in me bones boys. Have faith. See them in March! Yes.

[atlwsu]

I thought it was well played defensive game on both sides. UL made one more 3pointer and 7 more FTs. UL size was the difference, 13 more rebounds, and 8 more blocked shots. If this had been a football game it would have been 6 to 9 all feild goals with no touchdowns. WSU is going to win a bunch of games with that defense, as will UL.

[Shocker85]

The guy coaching from the other bench today is no slouch either. The Shocks had better be prepared to adjust today, too.

[proshox]

Can't defer as much when you are shooting better than your teammates and that deferring leads to only 1 assist.

@shock: may have something about changing the combination of the guards. I think CF/AR and DS/LS might make better combos. With CF/AR you basically have 2 PGs in the lineup who both can shoot. Opponents never sure who's point, who's shooter. With DS/LS, Landry wouldn't be the only guard who penetrates or goes to the rack, so he could back off that some. These combos also have a more "experienced with the system" guard in each, but still splits up a tall and shorter guard for each combo as well.

I would just start - CF, AR, LS, MM, SM

First off the bench as required. No platoon subs.

[im4wsu]

I did not get to watch any of the game due to Thanksgiving obligations and have not read all of the pages of this topic; regardless, your post makes the most sense to me as to why the Shockers lost. Rick Pitino did not get into the basketball hall of fame on his looks and social contacts.

Your quote of HC3G "...surprised UL played a match-up zone on defense" and "...didn't prepare for that, assumed they would be in man-to-man" informs why the Shockers lost - game preparation and coaching. From the box score appears HC3G conducted a brief clinic on the match-up zone during half-time which resulted in the Shockers winning the second half; but lost the game due to the hole they dug for themselves in the first half.

IMO an extremely valuable learning experience for this young Shocker team; I like our chances against MSU and remain confident in my prediction the Shockers will hit the 30 win market for the season.

We seem to be blessed with at least two five-man units, each with reasonable abilities. Would a HOF coach, while the other is playing in the first half, and educate them on a couple of ways to defeat the match-up zone? Then sub them in and educate the other unit.

[asiseeit]

Proshox and I are in agreement about the starting five. ZB and RK have
probably reached their ceilings and they are short ( more ways than one )
of matching up with other top 25 teams. The ceilings for LS and MM are
very high with DW's upside showing potential. They all deserve more
minutes than our current starting forwards. AR is almost as good as RB
was as a freshman just not as physical. CF is steady and playing very well.
RN playing well. We need the right offensive players taking shots. RK just
needs to focus on defense and rebounding. ZB needs to prove himself on
defense again cause his offense is not enough to justify starting over LS or
MM. There, I've said it plainly. Need more from the forward positions on
both ends of the court. I predict MM will be in the starting five before long
and by mid season DW will be getting more minutes, as well. I'd bet that
GM has already delivered this message to ZB/RK so lets see how they respond.

[Shocker1976]

We seem to be blessed with at least two five-man units, each with reasonable abilities. Would a HOF coach, while the other is playing in the first half, and educate them on a couple of ways to defeat the match-up zone? Then sub them in and educate the other unit.

I am too cynical to believe the report that Pitino decided at 2 AM on Thursday morning that a match-up zone with 50 minutes of instruction later on Thursday morning was the answer to his prayers for a way to beat the Shockers. IMO the Cardinal's near loss to ODU was more likely due their preparation to play the Shockers than adequately preparing to play ODU. But I am biased toward the Shockers.

[im4wsu]

I am too cynical to believe the report that Pitino decided at 2 AM on Thursday morning that a match-up zone with 50 minutes of instruction later on Thursday morning was the answer to his prayers for a way to beat the Shockers. IMO the Cardinal's near loss to ODU was more likely due their preparation to play the Shockers than adequately preparing to play ODU. But I am biased toward the Shockers.

I was talking about the Shockers, no Rick Spitino!

If we adjusted at halftime, could he have taken the non-playing five aside in the first half and made some adjustment?

[Shocker1976]

I was talking about the Shockers, no Rick Spitino!

If we adjusted at halftime, could he have taken the non-playing five aside in the first half and made some adjustment?

Forgive me for failing to offer a complete reply in my earlier post, I recognized you were posing that HC3G should have been able to make adjustments during the first half rather than waiting till half time. This is a reasonable question for which I have no answer. Perhaps HC3G did try to address the match-up zone during game time but was unsuccessful in getting the players to understand what he was offering them. IMO the box score clearly indicates he was successful during the 20 minutes of half time to instruct the players in how to neutralize UL's zone.

[Bluzrover]

After nearly 24 hours to stew and ponder over yesterday's defeat, I'm left with this: a team that lost two of its very best players and was in search of its new identity came up 10 short against the number 10 team in the country in its sixth game of the season. It sucks, but I can live with the result, knowing that it exposed weaknesses that may be correctable.

I think their size had a lot to do with the results as well and that's not something easily corrected although Marshall has certainly learned how to adapt to that as well. And I'm not sure all the talk about who starts and who comes off the bench is the panacea. Who's on the court at any given point in the game is certainly dictated by the opposing team' lineup as well as the flow of the game. And now it seems Kelly has become the new Wessel, a player 3G continues to start and play to the consternation of some of the fanbase.

[Shocker1976]

IMO HC3G and his staff have done an excellent job coaching the Shockers this season. A record of 5-1 signals they have a firm grasp of the realities of the young and inexperienced players and have made excellent in game decisions.

Pitino just demonstrated that he too has an excellent staff evaluating the Cardinals' future opponents and for the Shockers he needed to take an action outside the norm - a match-up zone that the Cardinals had not played this season. So an excellent learning experience for both the Shocker coaches and the players. I am pleased this learning occurred in November and not during the NCAA tournament.

[wusphlash]

It was a 10 point loss to the 10th ranked team in the country, no more, no less. Don't try and make too much of it. This Shocker team is still really, really good.

[Dave Stalwart]

It was a 10 point loss to the 10th ranked team in the country, no more, no less. Don't try and make too much of it. This Shocker team is still really, really good.

Exactly. We showed that we can hang around with them and that gives me confidence. I really thought we had a good chance to win it, but this is certainly a "good loss"

Wsu needs to regroup and continue to put together a good season. In the end, this loss will not be a problem unless the wheels come off later.

Now the players have experienced an NCAA tournament caliber game already in the season and been forced to learn from it. That's perfectly okay and good. 3-0 in this tournament would have vaulted us into the top 15 type of range. 2-1 will still raise us a tad. 1-2, given the opponents, will hardly drop us from where we already sit. It's all still a very good situation.