Ty Taylor is transferring

[_kai_]

[pie n eye]

And Evan was the same player as a sophomore that he was as a senior. See how this works?

Seriously, though, I believe I have made my point. My thanks to you for your post.

I'm fairly certain you don't know what you're talking about right now.

[wufan]

And Evan was the same player as a sophomore that he was as a senior. See how this works?

Seriously, though, I believe I have made my point. My thanks to you for your post.

What was your point again? Marshall has lost the ability to evaluate talent since he got a raise?

By not playing a player more minutes he forced that player to leave?

Because Evan Wessel, therefore Ty Taylor?

So many strawmen; I can't see what is going on.

[Topshock]

One might think that the best guard coach in the entire country wouldn't have 3 washouts in a row while recruiting and developing point guards.

It would be better to have a poll on this board about next year's starting PG because of several competing for the starting spot rather than have such a poll because someone has to play the position and there are no obvious choices on the roster.

Just stop!

When we had RB, FVV, and Frankamp it is a little harder to bring in the quality of guard that we need to be a starter but we still needed 2nd and 3rd string backups. Two of the three are now gone. Recruits can see this and it is now easier to get starting talent for the future which I am sure GM believes he has done.

[moshock]

Just stop!

When we had RB, FVV, and Frankamp it is a little harder to bring in the quality of guard that we need to be a starter but we still needed 2nd and 3rd string backups. Two of the three are now gone. Recruits can see this and it is now easier to get starting talent for the future which I am sure GM believes he has done.

IIRC, Buddy Hield - when ask why he didn't choose WSU - said something to the effect "They already were very deep at guard".

I'm sure that 3G is very demanding of his point guard. I'm also sure that the player and coach know pretty early on whether it's a good fit.

[jocoshock]

Then I think, especially in light of the three guys you mentioned being either JUCO's or transfers, that he should quit recruiting Freshmen (unless both the coach and player understand it's a 'project') for this type of role, because he has recruited two players that fit the attributes (HS shoot-first PG's), both failed. One found good success at a JUCO and I'm betting the other will find similar success wherever he goes. When these kinds of things happen, it's obvious that a primary failure attribute is that they did not fit into the system. Going to WSU and playing for Marshall as a shoot-first HS PG greatly decreases said player's chances for success. I think just about anyone would say that it would be better to not recruit this type of player than to recruit them and ask them to leave at the end of their first playing season.

Might explain some of Conner's hesitancy to shoot this year???

[tempshock]

You stated in your first post that you are a KU fan. So, in light of his decision to transfer, would you like him to transfer to your team?

Absolutely. I feel he would be a great fit at KU. Mason graduates after on more year and he could fill that spot along side of Graham. Self loves fast guards who can score and penetrate, and he loves combo guards. He would be much better suited to KU's system than to WSU's. He would have a year to redshirt and learn the system. He would be an awesome fit there. Unfortunately for Ty, Self recruits top 25 point guards coming out of high school.

[pie n eye]

Absolutely. I feel he would be a great fit at KU. Mason graduates after on more year and he could fill that spot along side of Graham. Self loves fast guards who can score and penetrate, and he loves combo guards. He would be much better suited to KU's system than to WSU's. He would have a year to redshirt and learn the system. He would be an awesome fit there. Unfortunately for Ty, Self recruits top 25 point guards coming out of high school.

Like Appalachian State High School?

[tempshock]

Oh boy, all this hand-wringing for a guy that had 11 assists and 10 turnovers in 19 games. And shot 29% from the field. I guess by "less restrictive" you mean a program that doesn't mind if players don't value the ball and take dumb shots and turn it over. Those programs are also called "losers".

Ty had his chance to show he could be a player here and he didn't do that. Orlando was not an unfair situation for Taylor. Every player has to be ready to go when their number is called. Those games were his opportunity to show that he could be the pg of the future here by running the sets, taking care of the basketball, being a leader on the floor and directing the club as he was expected to by the coaching staff. Instead, he was careless with the basketball, took a bunch of ill-advised shots and simply failed to transfer what he was being taught in practice into positive results during the games.

To keep him on the team would have sent a message to other players that you can be sloppy and do your own thing and it will be tolerated.

If anyone here can argue differently I invite them to do so.

He wasn't given much of a chance. Let's put this in perspective...He had a poor shooting percentage, I grant you that, but Frankamp and Wessel didn't set things on fire. Taylor actually hd a better 3 point percentage than Wessel and just slightly below Frankamp, and I see Wessel shot free throws at a whopping .467 clip. Again, keep in mind those two guys had the advantage of playing along side of FVV, a guy who gets people wide open. Taylor also didn't get to play much against MV competition. Most of his minutes came in 3 tournament games against USC, Alabama and Iowa. Against Alabama he had 8 points, one steal, 6 assists, 5 rebounds and 0 turnovers. That suggests to me that he's a kid capable of playing against high D1 competition and being successful. You act like he was a turnover waiting to happen, but looking at box scores, he didn't turn it over much. In the Orlando games his higest turnover total was 4. All he did was miss shots, something he's not consistently done his entire career, and something he would have worked his way out of. In the right program, with patience, his kid has the talent to be a big time player. Did he perhaps shoot too much? I'll give you that, but I also can't say I saw him take many bad shots. He gets open with such ease, because of his quickness, his looks are generally good ones, but Marshall likes patience, and many of his shots go went up a little to quick. That's an unforgiveable mistake by a Freshman who was given up on 6 or 8 games into his career? So we agree he missed shots, but so did his teammates, and yet the coach showed more patience to them.

WSU was a bad fit for him, period. This is a mutually good parting of ways.

[Stickboy46]

He wasn't given much of a chance. Let's put this in perspective...He had a poor shooting percentage, I grant you that, but Frankamp and Wessel didn't set things on fire. Taylor actually hd a better 3 point percentage than Wessel and just slightly below Frankamp, and I see Wessel shot free throws at a whopping .467 clip. Again, keep in mind those two guys had the advantage of playing along side of FVV, a guy who gets people wide open. Taylor also didn't get to play much against MV competition. Most of his minutes came in 3 tournament games against USC, Alabama and Iowa. Against Alabama he had 8 points, one steal, 6 assists, 5 rebounds and 0 turnovers. That suggests to me that he's a kid capable of playing against high D1 competition and being successful. You act like he was a turnover waiting to happen, but looking at box scores, he didn't turn it over much. In the Orlando games his higest turnover total was 4. All he did was miss shots, something he's not consistently done his entire career, and something he would have worked his way out of. In the right program, with patience, his kid has the talent to be a big time player. Did he perhaps shoot too much? I'll give you that, but I also can't say I saw him take many bad shots. He gets open with such ease, because of his quickness, his looks are generally good ones, but Marshall likes patience, and many of his shots go went up a little to quick. That's an unforgiveable mistake by a Freshman who was given up on 6 or 8 games into his career? So we agree he missed shots, but so did his teammates, and yet the coach showed more patience to them.

WSU was a bad fit for him, period. This is a mutually good parting of ways.

This is a true fitment issue IMO. Our offense relies a lot on high ball screens that gets the guards moving towards the basket. With Fred, he would come off the screen and would be "open" but wouldn't be looking for his shot, he would be looking for a lane to drive, or a way to dump the ball to the screener, a man down low, or a man outside. With Ty, he took those screens and saw his shot and took it. Often times in our offense, the first "open" shot isn't the best one. Ty took the first open shot the majority of the time. If he were to hit 45-50% of those shots, he would have been a huge contributor this year, but he didn't.

[roundhouse]

We're in a catch 22 here. On the one hand we can point out the reasons Taylor was not going to work here. On the other hand I don't like the idea of tearing down a kid I've never met who is just trying to play some ball in this crazy world we live in.

It didn't work out. He'll move on and make the best of the situation and so will WSU basketball. The sky isn't falling. This will work out for everyone involved.

Newbie here. I'm sure glad someone said it. Ty played like poo. The feeling I'm sensing is sympathy for Ty and those like him. It sucks to take a year away from a kids career, when he could have been elsewhere. It sucks this consistently happens at WSU. However, this stuff happens everywhere.

Hard to find a solution to this, especially when Ty played when we needed him. Not every team's 38 min ppg PG gets hurt. When you consider our team, he was incredibly lucky to have played the minutes he did. We were banking on his quickness to the rack (which we so desperately need), but instead we saw screen and pull.

[Zardoz]

Thanks to Ty for his time here. I hope he will find a system and program where his talents will be better fit. Welcome to the world of big time college athletics. This is where we want to play. This is why we pay HCGM the big bucks. There are going to be some hard choices to be made as far as which players stay and which go and HCGM has to make those hard decisions. He usually helps players find a better landing spot. Again welcome to top 25 basketball.

[Art Bunch]

Absolutely. I feel he would be a great fit at KU. Mason graduates after on more year and he could fill that spot along side of Graham. Self loves fast guards who can score and penetrate, and he loves combo guards. He would be much better suited to KU's system than to WSU's. He would have a year to redshirt and learn the system. He would be an awesome fit there. Unfortunately for Ty, Self recruits top 25 point guards coming out of high school.

Oh yeah. I was in Bill's office one time. He had the list - top point guards in the country. I asked about one kid and he said, "Nah, that guy's number 26. Don't you know? I only recruit from the top 25 you sonnofabitch! Now get out of my office!" Our relationship has never been the same.

[im4wsu]

You don't necessarily have to tell a player to leave. It's one of those 'is the glass half-empty or half-full' kinds of things. You can simply tell them 'you're at the end of the bench, you have no hope to progress next year and I don't see a future for you here at your present level of performance.'

There is nothing in the paragraph above directly telling the kid that he's not welcome, yet the words speak volumes about the kid's future. If you accepted a scholarship based on the perception that you could contribute and were wanted and someone gave you that kind of feedback, you would probably tell everyone you are transferring.

Note that TT was sitting on the end of the bench and saw little daylight, I think HCGM's assessment of player performance can be inferred from his actions.

The point being, do you know that the words "in the paragraph directly above," or words to the same effect, were actually discussed with TT or any other player, for that matter? Or are you just assuming, in the same manner you assume that MM is a better fit with SM,RB,FVV and ZB than EW was? Isn't it entirely possible that TT came to his own conclusion that he'd rather maybe have more playing time elsewhere than invest another year(s) with the potential to not have significantly more playing time?

[Art Bunch]

He wasn't given much of a chance. Let's put this in perspective...He had a poor shooting percentage, I grant you that, but Frankamp and Wessel didn't set things on fire. Taylor actually hd a better 3 point percentage than Wessel and just slightly below Frankamp, and I see Wessel shot free throws at a whopping .467 clip. Again, keep in mind those two guys had the advantage of playing along side of FVV, a guy who gets people wide open. Taylor also didn't get to play much against MV competition. Most of his minutes came in 3 tournament games against USC, Alabama and Iowa. Against Alabama he had 8 points, one steal, 6 assists, 5 rebounds and 0 turnovers. That suggests to me that he's a kid capable of playing against high D1 competition and being successful. You act like he was a turnover waiting to happen, but looking at box scores, he didn't turn it over much. In the Orlando games his higest turnover total was 4. All he did was miss shots, something he's not consistently done his entire career, and something he would have worked his way out of. In the right program, with patience, his kid has the talent to be a big time player. Did he perhaps shoot too much? I'll give you that, but I also can't say I saw him take many bad shots. He gets open with such ease, because of his quickness, his looks are generally good ones, but Marshall likes patience, and many of his shots go went up a little to quick. That's an unforgiveable mistake by a Freshman who was given up on 6 or 8 games into his career? So we agree he missed shots, but so did his teammates, and yet the coach showed more patience to them.

WSU was a bad fit for him, period. This is a mutually good parting of ways.

Like Marcus Smart, you keep shooting... and missing. Let me try again:

1. We have plays.
2. Players have to run the plays.
3. Players don't run the plays - they don't play.

If you want to blame something, blame AAU ball. Because that's what the real issue is with a lot of these kids. Just roll the ball out, no fundamentals, no accountability. And when they get to a higher level like a college team, they're not ready for structure and discipline.