Ty Taylor is transferring

[shocka khan]

It's Marshalls job to bring in talent and then once they are on board, evaluate that talent and hope to see that it works...

He should know that BEFORE he extends the offer, not after he gets the player on campus. He seems to do that real well evaluating players before signing them except for HS shoot-first PG's. Again, if he's one of the top 10 coaches in the country, he should be at or close to the top at evaluating talent.

[pie n eye]

Taylor is going to be a really good player for some program. This was just a horrible fit. Marshall is a control freak, and Taylor was a Freshman thrown into the fire when FVV was injured. By putting him in that tough situation in Orlando, Marshall ended up losing confidence in him. But beyond that, there had to be something going on under the surface. He wasn't even getting much playing time in blowouts, instead Marshall went to a walk-on much of the time. Orlando was a no win situation for Ty. WSU was playing against high D1 programs with a lot of size, and there was very little inside support in those games. It's not like WSU was getting blown out in those games, and none of those teams were pushovers.

The other point I've mentioned before is that Taylor was never given the chance to play with Fred. He was perfectly capable of playing the two, and WSU could have used him in that role in close games. This kid is going to have a really good career in the right program. He will sit a year and learn somebody's system, and then be a very mature Sophomore. He is really a gifted athlete, who will benefit from a less restrictive system.

You stated in your first post that you are a KU fan. So, in light of his decision to transfer, would you like him to transfer to your team?

[shocka khan]

Your logic would be nearly impeccable if we only played on one end of the floor.

I'm not buying what you're selling. Especially with MM's length and the way SM played defense. Other options were available. You're just glossing over EW's weaknesses. I'm sure that at the end of the season MM was better on defense than EW was.

MM will be with us for three more years. Given that MM's defense was better than EW's at the end of the season and given that MM will be with us for three more years, why wasn't he (or even Zach Brown, who everyone on here pretty much agrees is good defensively) getting more minutes? At least either one of them would have been less of an offensive liability.

[im4wsu]

I'm not one of the privileged who gets to see practices, but I tend to believe that GM is not one to hold grudges or lose confidence in a player based on being thrown into the impossible-to-succeed situation, but rather makes decisions based on what he sees each and every day in practices and in games. If TT was "getting it" in practice, on both ends of the floor, then he would have gotten some minutes. My educated guess is that he played in practice much like he did when he got a few minutes in the games.

[pie n eye]

Yeah, that's the ticket. It was the players he recruited that are the problem. Who cares if we pay him $3.5 M plus to recruit players who don't fit into the system. If the players who he recruited weren't so dumb, they never would have signed in the first place, amiright?

PS, I would like to know of the people who seem to think this is perfectly OK, why EW wasn't sitting a little more on the bench a little quicker when we had MM who, as a freshman, only was Valley Freshman of the Year? Why was it OK to play EW when he wasn't producing and OK to bench TT when he wasn't producing? Isn't that a double standard?

Of course it all comes back to Evan Wessel. Lucky for you (and all of us who have grown tired of the schtick) he won't be here to kick around next year.

[Art Bunch]

Taylor is going to be a really good player for some program. This was just a horrible fit. Marshall is a control freak, and Taylor was a Freshman thrown into the fire when FVV was injured. By putting him in that tough situation in Orlando, Marshall ended up losing confidence in him. But beyond that, there had to be something going on under the surface. He wasn't even getting much playing time in blowouts, instead Marshall went to a walk-on much of the time. Orlando was a no win situation for Ty. WSU was playing against high D1 programs with a lot of size, and there was very little inside support in those games. It's not like WSU was getting blown out in those games, and none of those teams were pushovers.

The other point I've mentioned before is that Taylor was never given the chance to play with Fred. He was perfectly capable of playing the two, and WSU could have used him in that role in close games. This kid is going to have a really good career in the right program. He will sit a year and learn somebody's system, and then be a very mature Sophomore. He is really a gifted athlete, who will benefit from a less restrictive system.

Oh boy, all this hand-wringing for a guy that had 11 assists and 10 turnovers in 19 games. And shot 29% from the field. I guess by "less restrictive" you mean a program that doesn't mind if players don't value the ball and take dumb shots and turn it over. Those programs are also called "losers".

Ty had his chance to show he could be a player here and he didn't do that. Orlando was not an unfair situation for Taylor. Every player has to be ready to go when their number is called. Those games were his opportunity to show that he could be the pg of the future here by running the sets, taking care of the basketball, being a leader on the floor and directing the club as he was expected to by the coaching staff. Instead, he was careless with the basketball, took a bunch of ill-advised shots and simply failed to transfer what he was being taught in practice into positive results during the games.

To keep him on the team would have sent a message to other players that you can be sloppy and do your own thing and it will be tolerated.

If anyone here can argue differently I invite them to do so.

[wu_shizzle]

One might think that the best guard coach in the entire country wouldn't have 3 washouts in a row while recruiting and developing point guards.

I know the official position is that we don't recruit backups.

But it's obvious that recruiting a PG becomes very challenging when there's a likelihood that said recruit will receive plenty of time riding pine.

It's easier to take a kid with a lot of upside potential when you have a high level player already slated in the starting lineup.

The common denominator with those 3 is that they were behind All-Americans.

[im4wsu]

I'm not buying what you're selling. Especially with MM's length and the way SM played defense. Other options were available. You're just glossing over EW's weaknesses. I'm sure that at the end of the season MM was better on defense than EW was.

MM will be with us for three more years. Given that MM's defense was better than EW's at the end of the season and given that MM will be with us for three more years, why wasn't he (or even Zach Brown, who everyone on here pretty much agrees is good defensively) getting more minutes? At least either one of them would have been less of an offensive liability.

Gee, that was a quick establishment of fact based on your personal opinion stated less than ten words earlier. MM's one-on-one defense on a usually shorter opponent MAY be better than EW's defense on usually taller opponent, but in NO WAY, SHAPE or FORM was MM's team defense better than EW's this last season, even at the very end of it. EW certainly gave away physical advantage to his opponent, but was rarely scored upon because he was out of position. How often does his man drive on him and he backpeddles and takes the bal l out of his opponent's hands? How about drawing charging fouls by being in position? MM also gets on the floor for loose balls, but EW does have a certain knack of nearly always being around loose balls.

[pie n eye]

Oh boy, all this hand-wringing for a guy that had 11 assists and 10 turnovers in 19 games. And shot 29% from the field. I guess by "less restrictive" you mean a program that doesn't mind if players don't value the ball and take dumb shots and turn it over. Those programs are also called "losers".

Ty had his chance to show he could be a player here and he didn't do that. Orlando was not an unfair situation for Taylor. Every player has to be ready to go when their number is called. Those games were his opportunity to show that he could be the pg of the future here by running the sets, taking care of the basketball, being a leader on the floor and directing the club as he was expected to by the coaching staff. Instead, he was careless with the basketball, took a bunch of ill-advised shots and simply failed to transfer what he was being taught in practice into positive results during the games.

To keep him on the team would have sent a message to other players that you can be sloppy and do your own thing and it will be tolerated.

If anyone here can argue differently I invite them to do so.

We're in a catch 22 here. On the one hand we can point out the reasons Taylor was not going to work here. On the other hand I don't like the idea of tearing down a kid I've never met who is just trying to play some ball in this crazy world we live in.

It didn't work out. He'll move on and make the best of the situation and so will WSU basketball. The sky isn't falling. This will work out for everyone involved.

[proshox]

Except he did play some and you can bet the redshirt would have come off when Fred went down. Now, he can transfer to a D1 school and actually redshirt, not wasting a year of eligibility. In your proposal, he would have to go to a community college or D2 to avoid actually wasting a year.

Which is why we should play all marginal freshman. If they aren't a surefire rock star - play them and make sure they are worth burning a redshirt as a sophomore. Anything else is bad for the player.

McDuffie was probably the only guy in this year's class that would could have safely redshirted.

[WuDrWu]

Bottom line is that if we are paying him top ten money, he needs to earn his money by being a little more careful who he recruits for a particular position and being consistent about what he expects from ALL players.

Bottom line is that despite your mid 6 figure income and complete understanding of everything ever created, you don't have a ****ing clue what you're talking about here, so just shut up.

You're wrong, period. Shut up.

That is all.

[WuDrWu]

He should know that BEFORE he extends the offer, not after he gets the player on campus. He seems to do that real well evaluating players before signing them except for HS shoot-first PG's. Again, if he's one of the top 10 coaches in the country, he should be at or close to the top at evaluating talent.

Talk about things you know. You're brainless here.

[shocka khan]

Gee, that was a quick establishment of fact based on your personal opinion stated less than ten words earlier. MM's one-on-one defense on a usually shorter opponent MAY be better than EW's defense on usually taller opponent, but in NO WAY, SHAPE or FORM was MM's team defense better than EW's this last season, even at the very end of it. EW certainly gave away physical advantage to his opponent, but was rarely scored upon because he was out of position. How often does his man drive on him and he backpeddles and takes the bal l out of his opponent's hands? How about drawing charging fouls by being in position? MM also gets on the floor for loose balls, but EW does have a certain knack of nearly always being around loose balls.

Too bad I don't have the tools that you do to emphasize or change text to get my point across. EW was 6'5" playing PF. He got owned by bigger, stronger P5 PF's. So what if he rarely got scored on while being out of position (especially when you're giving up 4 or 5 inches and 50 or 60 puunds)? And how many charges did he take? That stat is not tracked, so you really can't tell whether EW or MM got more charges when converted to a metric related to minutes played. What is tracked is scoring, rebounding, assists and steals. Last I looked at EW's stats, he had a whole 1 steal per game. Plus, as Kel has pointed out many, many times, his Prouty rating is somewhere near zero.

So again, why are there two different standards for two players? And, as usual, you totally overlook the comment I made about 'being the first off the bench'. You're making it sound like I want to treat him like HCGM treated TT. I don't. I just wanted to see the best player we had at each position starting, and I'm not sure EW was the best PF we had. All other things being equal, I would prefer the player with the most potential to be starting. I look at MM and EW and I see potential in MM, but I don't see potential in EW, who was a 5th year senior (and who had stats very similar to his Sophomore season). With MM, the more minutes he's on the floor, the better his shooting, rebounding and defense.

[Art Bunch]

We're in a catch 22 here. On the one hand we can point out the reasons Taylor was not going to work here. On the other hand I don't like the idea of tearing down a kid I've never met who is just trying to play some ball in this crazy world we live in.

It didn't work out. He'll move on and make the best of the situation and so will WSU basketball. The sky isn't falling. This will work out for everyone involved.

Not tearing him down, just making an evaluation. I think we can all agree that we're not bringing low character guys in here as players. TT is a good kid as shown by his attitude from the bench. And I agree, it will work out for everyone involved.

[Cdizzle]

Dang it. I was so hopeful that all the idiotic Wessel-haters would finally have to move on to something else. Guess I was the real fool this April.