Ty Taylor is transferring

[pie n eye]

Not tearing him down, just making an evaluation. I think we can all agree that we're not bringing low character guys in here as players. TT is a good kid as shown by his attitude from the bench. And I agree, it will work out for everyone involved.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were tearing him down. I didn't get that from your post.

[shocka khan]

Dang it. I was so hopeful that all the idiotic Wessel-haters would finally have to move on to something else. Guess I was the real fool this April.

I'm willing to bury the hatchet, it's just I think there's more than a few hypocritical posters here. They get all wound up about someone suggesting EW ought to play less based on his performance, but think it's perfectly OK for the coach to ask a recruit to transfer for the same reasons.

If people can't be polite and respectful (and not dismissive) of those players, then I think anyone on the team is fair game.

[ShockingButTrue]

Gee, that was a quick establishment of fact based on your personal opinion stated less than ten words earlier. MM's one-on-one defense on a usually shorter opponent MAY be better than EW's defense on usually taller opponent, but in NO WAY, SHAPE or FORM was MM's team defense better than EW's this last season, even at the very end of it. EW certainly gave away physical advantage to his opponent, but was rarely scored upon because he was out of position. How often does his man drive on him and he backpeddles and takes the bal l out of his opponent's hands? How about drawing charging fouls by being in position? MM also gets on the floor for loose balls, but EW does have a certain knack of nearly always being around loose balls.

I agree with this (not arguing in any way).

Evan was responsible for the Shocks getting several extra possesions a game via steal, block, charge taken, offensive rebound & defensive rebound.

Consistenty. Game after game. No exceptions.

It sounds like cherry picking, but I was worried about Utah's interior, and thus exploiting us on the glass, before we played them. BUT, before tip-off I was alerted that with Evan on the floor it wasn't gonna happen. Sure enough...

[Slalomshocker]

If someone wanted to make the argument about the transfer situation and base it on the fact that Marshall constantly over recruits and thus has to 'ask the kids to leave' in order to make room.... I'd listen to the argument of that possibly creating a poor image. The current argument of Marshall not being a good judge of talent being the cause of the transfer....no merit. You take the best player you can get at the time. You don't offer a player you don't feel is worthy of a scholarship. Sometimes guys feast upon weaker HS competition and fall flat on their face against legit D1 competition. Sometimes guys just don't 'fit'. Going beyond the program as the problem, sometimes players simply get homesick. And at the end of the spectrum WSU thankfully is no longer at..... Kids transfer to greener pastures to get off bad teams.

Bottom line, transfers are a big part of college athletics now. Coaches have to play the game as the rules allow....just as the players have to adjust to the whistles.

[shocka khan]

As a further aside, I have not been critical of EW from before the Missouri Valley Tourney until now. The reason I'm bringing it up now is that I see people who castigated me for doing something doing the same exact thing to another player on the team.

I'd rather see some of those people be more polite and respectful (and I will also) rather than trying to criticize a young man, who by all accounts was a good player when he came here, who got put in a hopeless position and failed and who was asked to leave as a result. If they were outspoken, violated team rules or were a pain in the behind, I could understand and accept this criticism. But were talking about a young man here who by ALL accounts was viewed in a positive manner with no character issues either on or off the court.

[Cdizzle]

I'm willing to bury the hatchet, it's just I think there's more than a few hypocritical posters here. They get all wound up about someone suggesting EW ought to play less based on his performance, but think it's perfectly OK for the coach to ask a recruit to transfer for the same reasons.

If people can't be polite and respectful (and not dismissive) of those players, then I think anyone on the team is fair game.

Who said the coach asked a recruit to transfer? Also, you are basing things on your (IMO very wrong) assessment of player performance, not mine, and certainly not the coach's.

[shocka khan]

Who said the coach asked a recruit to transfer? Also, you are basing things on your (IMO very wrong) assessment of player performance, not mine, and certainly not the coach's.

You don't necessarily have to tell a player to leave. It's one of those 'is the glass half-empty or half-full' kinds of things. You can simply tell them 'you're at the end of the bench, you have no hope to progress next year and I don't see a future for you here at your present level of performance.'

There is nothing in the paragraph above directly telling the kid that he's not welcome, yet the words speak volumes about the kid's future. If you accepted a scholarship based on the perception that you could contribute and were wanted and someone gave you that kind of feedback, you would probably tell everyone you are transferring.

Note that TT was sitting on the end of the bench and saw little daylight, I think HCGM's assessment of player performance can be inferred from his actions.

[Cdizzle]

Right. Sooooo, sounds a lot to me like a good basketball player realized he was in a spot where he might not get to play as much as he would like in his collegiate career and decided to make a move to somewhere he might be able to do that.

The humanity.

[pie n eye]

As a further aside, I have not been critical of EW from before the Missouri Valley Tourney until now. The reason I'm bringing it up now is that I see people who castigated me for doing something doing the same exact thing to another player on the team.

I'd rather see some of those people be more polite and respectful (and I will also) rather than trying to criticize a young man, who by all accounts was a good player when he came here, who got put in a hopeless position and failed and who was asked to leave as a result. If they were outspoken, violated team rules or were a pain in the behind, I could understand and accept this criticism. But were talking about a young man here who by ALL accounts was viewed in a positive manner with no character issues either on or off the court.

Come on, man! Please quit before you dig this hole any further. I get it, you have an axe to grind with Marshall and Evan Wessel for some reason.

TT wasn't put in a hopeless situation. In fact, one could argue Fred's injury was a positive break because everybody wants to play and show what they can do. It was an opportunity. McDuffie was put in essentially the same situation and you know what? He took his failings in Orlando and improved his game. Ty, from what I saw, seemed to be the same player in February that he was in November.

[jdshock]

Which is why we should play all marginal freshman. If they aren't a surefire rock star - play them and make sure they are worth burning a redshirt as a sophomore. Anything else is bad for the player.

McDuffie was probably the only guy in this year's class that would could have safely redshirted.

Agree wholeheartedly, and even then (with the rockstar players) you risk redshirting such a good player that is going to leave early, potentially losing a year. I think we're going to see more and more of the second year redshirt program. Sometimes we will still see freshmen redshirt, but the second year makes so much sense. I was very glad Nurger was going to take it this year.

[ShockerFever]

I'm not buying what you're selling. Especially with MM's length and the way SM played defense. Other options were available. You're just glossing over EW's weaknesses. I'm sure that at the end of the season MM was better on defense than EW was.

MM will be with us for three more years. Given that MM's defense was better than EW's at the end of the season and given that MM will be with us for three more years, why wasn't he (or even Zach Brown, who everyone on here pretty much agrees is good defensively) getting more minutes? At least either one of them would have been less of an offensive liability.

Did you seriously just make an argument that a senior should sit at the end of the year because he's a senior?

[choida]

Yeah, that's the ticket. It was the players he recruited that are the problem. Who cares if we pay him $3.5 M plus to recruit players who don't fit into the system. If the players who he recruited weren't so dumb, they never would have signed in the first place, amiright?

PS, I would like to know of the people who seem to think this is perfectly OK, why EW wasn't sitting a little more on the bench a little quicker when we had MM who, as a freshman, only was Valley Freshman of the Year? Why was it OK to play EW when he wasn't producing and OK to bench TT when he wasn't producing? Isn't that a double standard?

Back away from the keyboard... You really need to read what you are writing, you are comparing apples to oranges

[shocka khan]

Come on, man! Please quit before you dig this hole any further. I get it, you have an axe to grind with Marshall and Evan Wessel for some reason.

TT wasn't put in a hopeless situation. In fact, one could argue Fred's injury was a positive break because everybody wants to play and show what they can do. It was an opportunity. McDuffie was put in essentially the same situation and you know what? He took his failings in Orlando and improved his game. Ty, from what I saw, seemed to be the same player in February that he was in November.

And Evan was the same player as a sophomore that he was as a senior. See how this works?

Seriously, though, I believe I have made my point. My thanks to you for your post.

[Cdizzle]

You have made your "point" for some 2 years. It's just a REALLY, REALLY terrible point. So people keep calling you out on it.

[boltforge]

During this incredible Marshall Era we will be always having the discussion about transfers. He doesn't recruit one-and-done rock stars. So WSU doesn't have people leaving early to free up spots (like up north in the 2 short of a dozen).

WSU, with the way Marshall coaches, should be in the tournament each year. Should have a shot at a national title each year. Young men want to be here for that (see Grady). Playing for spots is tough and WSU will lose some really good young men due to lack of time on the court.

This is a problem of being successful and not jumping onto the one-and-done style. As fans we really need to find a way to encourage these guys if they stay or if they go. I imagine what they go through is similar to having family move apart from each other.