Kellen hits a nerve

[ShockerPrez]

They just can't stand that there is any faction anywhere that just doesn't give a **** what their opinion is.

And furthermore, can't stand that people despise them.

And furthermore, freaking got over on them in the one in a thousand chance they had to do so!! Their plan was working so well.

[Art Bunch]

Pretty sad when they turn a criticism of Syracuse & UNC into something about them. A bit narcissistic.

On Kellen's point though, I feel exactly the same way. Very embarrassing for the NCAA if UNC wins the NC and then has to vacate it later. And I would argue it's much different than when USC was forced to give back their MNC in football and Memphis' 2nd place finish was nullified. Everyone knew USC was a dirty football program under open-mouth-gum-chewing Pete Carroll. Same for Memphis under Cal (minus the open-mouth-gum-chewing of course).

But North Carolina? That's Dean Smith... Roy Williams. God sends his angels to Chapel Hill to learn how to sing. The laws of nature forbid any animal to relieve themselves on the hallowed grounds of its campus. North Carolina the blue-bloodiest of the blue-blood programs. It's colors are white and blue for crying out loud! You can't get more blue blood than that. And not just blue, but baby blue... childlike, innocent, chaste... dare I say... virtuous.
And yet here we are, considering the possibility that a team may win a national championship on the court and have to give it back because of a multi-decade academic scandal. Yet in all the hours of broadcasting on CBS nothing is said about the elephant in the room, the only person to raise the issue is a teenager on Twitter. Good for you KM.

[XManCometh]

I think the funniest part about this is that I don't even think Kellen was referring to KU with that Tweet. By all accounts, Bill Self runs a pretty clean program.


Maybe KU fans know something the rest of us don't? ;)

[ShockdaWorld]

I think the funniest part about this is that I don't even think Kellen was referring to KU with that Tweet. By all accounts, Bill Self runs a pretty clean program.


Maybe KU fans know something the rest of us don't? ;)

Not a doubt in my mind. He was referring to UNC and Syracuse. KU fans just jumped on and took it for a ride.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Thanks. Can we get KU's comparison from 2005 to the present?

Historically, the average 1 seed wins 3.36 games. 2 seeds avg 2.43 wins. 3 seeds avg 1.79 wins. Etc.

KU	Seed	Record	Conclusion
2002	1	4-1	Final Four
2003	2	5-1	National Runner Up
2004	4	3-1	Elite Eight
2005	3	0-1	Upset by a 14 seed
2006	4	0-1	Upset by a 13 seed
2007	1	3-1	Elite Eight
2008	1	6-0	National Champs
2009	3	2-1	Sweet Sixteen
2010	1	1-1	Upset by a 9 seed
2011	1	3-1	Elite Eight
2012	2	5-1	National Runner Up
2013	1	2-1	Sweet 16
2014	2	1-1	Upset by a 10 seed
2015	2	1-1	Upset by a 7 seed
2016	1	3-1	Elite Eight

Actual & expected win totals based on seeds received:
KU over past 10 years: Actual wins = 27. Expected wins = 29.24 (92%)
Georgetown past 10 yrs: Actuals wins = 7. Expected wins = 13.65 (51%, and that's with a Final 4 in 2007 as the starting point!)

Going back even further...
KU over past 15 years: Actual wins = 39. Expected wins = 39.86 (98%)

Bucknell and Bradley made for fun trash talk, and WSU playing while KU sat at home in 2013, 2014, and 2015 was also enjoyable, but no matter how you spin it, KU has earned a remarkable run of high seeds based on regular season play, and has then performed pretty much on par with the expectations that come with seeds like those.

I root against KU every game they play, but trash talk based in misinformation seems rather lazy.

[ShockdaWorld]

Historically, the average 1 seed wins 3.36 games. 2 seeds avg 2.43 wins. 3 seeds avg 1.79 wins. Etc.

KU	Seed	Record	Conclusion
2002	1	4-1	Final Four
2003	2	5-1	National Runner Up
2004	4	3-1	Elite Eight
2005	3	0-1	Upset by a 14 seed
2006	4	0-1	Upset by a 13 seed
2007	1	3-1	Elite Eight
2008	1	6-0	National Champs
2009	3	2-1	Sweet Sixteen
2010	1	1-1	Upset by a 9 seed
2011	1	3-1	Elite Eight
2012	2	5-1	National Runner Up
2013	1	2-1	Sweet 16
2014	2	1-1	Upset by a 10 seed
2015	2	1-1	Upset by a 7 seed
2016	1	3-1	Elite Eight

Actual & expected win totals based on seeds received:
KU over past 10 years: Actual wins = 27. Expected wins = 29.24 (92%)
Georgetown past 10 yrs: Actuals wins = 7. Expected wins = 13.65 (51%, and that's with a Final 4 in 2007 as the starting point!)

Going back even further...
KU over past 15 years: Actual wins = 39. Expected wins = 39.86 (98%)

Bucknell and Bradley made for fun trash talk, and WSU playing while KU sat at home in 2013, 2014, and 2015 was also enjoyable, but no matter how you spin it, KU has earned a remarkable run of high seeds based on regular season play, and has then performed pretty much on par with the expectations that come with seeds like those.

I root against KU every game they play, but trash talk based in misinformation seems rather lazy.

So if I'm understanding this correctly, they've underperformed for their seed line both in the last ten years, and in the last 15 years, although it has been by a very small margin, so they are just barely below average compared to others given the same seed during the same amount of years. Does that sound accurate, or am I misinterpreting something?

Georgetown on the other hand is FAR below average, for all teams receiving the same seeds over the same period of time.

[Cdizzle]

Historically, the average 1 seed wins 3.36 games. 2 seeds avg 2.43 wins. 3 seeds avg 1.79 wins. Etc.

Is this information readily available for all seed lines? If so, could you post a linky?

I'll hang up and listen off the air. TIA

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

So if I'm understanding this correctly, they've underperformed for their seed line both in the last ten years, and in the last 15 years, although it has been by a very small margin, so they are just barely below average compared to others given the same seed during the same amount of years. Does that sound accurate, or am I misinterpreting something?

Georgetown on the other hand is FAR below average, for all teams receiving the same seeds over the same period of time.

Exactly.

[ShockdaWorld]

This makes sense, too much sense for my liking. I wanted It to fit more closely with the narrative that I read last night about Self coached KU teams being tied with Duke for most losses as a better seed, and with Self's 5 losses as a 1 seed being the most in said amount of time. I was afraid that those numbers may be somewhat skewed because of the quantity of #1 seeds KU has received.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Is this information readily available for all seed lines? If so, could you post a linky?

I'll hang up and listen off the air. TIA

Yes, the story is a old, but I can't imagine 2008-2016 looked all that different than 1987-2007. I'd be happy to update my examples above if someone could provide newer numbers.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/news/story?id=3286167

[Cdizzle]

So what you're telling me is that I may have to cool it on the 'overrated B12' talk but I can totally go for it on the 'overrated bigeast' talk? Cause that's what I heard.

Somebody has to be overrated. And I'm going to rant about it.

[Heinro]

Historically, the average 1 seed wins 3.36 games. 2 seeds avg 2.43 wins. 3 seeds avg 1.79 wins. Etc.

KU	Seed	Record	Conclusion
2013	1	2-1	Sweet 16
2014	2	1-1	Upset by a 10 seed
2015	2	1-1	Upset by a 7 seed
2016	1	3-1	Elite Eight

So, if I am correct in understanding your numbers, that would mean over the last 4 years KU was expected to have 11.58 wins over the last 4 years. Instead, they have 7. Therefore, I stand by my statement. In that time, KU had only 1 win against a team seeded 7 or higher. Spin it as you wish and I will do the same.

Edit: I understand I referenced Bucknell and Bradley, therefore my statement goes back the last 10 years. This was an over site on my part. I essentially meant the same period of Villanova's disappointment.

[BOBB]

KU's 12 year tourney resume is enviable. I don't like KU, but 2005 and 2006 are the only years they have dooked the bed. 2006 was Bradley as I recall and they were pretty good. I wouldn't trade anything in our program for theirs, but I would take those postseason results over 12 years.

[Heinro]

After doing my own research, yes, yours still stands, but since 2005 KU has 5 wins over teams seeded higher than 7. SIU as a 4, UNC/Memphis as 1, UNC/Ohio St. as 1/2. Essentially KU under performed their seed with continuously lucky match ups against Cinderella's over that period of time.

[ShockerPrez]

Here is my statistical equation that I perfected and proofed numerous times when evaluating statistics in regards to KU.

(ALL STATS) X (KU) = KU SUCKS!