Rafters

[ShockdaWorld]

The cynicism is awesome!!

[Cdizzle]

I just wish, whether in the right or in the wrong, people would wait a couple months after the conclusion of unquestionably 2 of the best 10 careers of all time at Wichita St. before pissing on their jerseys.

Good lord. It's like some of you think they owed you personally a national championship trophy.

[Topshock]

I just wish, whether in the right or in the wrong, people would wait a couple months after the conclusion of unquestionably 2 of the best 10 careers of all time at Wichita St. before pissing on their jerseys.

Good lord. It's like some of you think they owed you personally a national championship trophy.

i haven't seen anybody pissing on anything and the players certainly didn't owe anybody anything. Great players, great team. Retiring a number is a whole different discussion.

[Shock Top]

"Change the program forever, you get you number retired" No
If that is the criteria, why not Paul Miller. If not for him and that Sweet 16 run then there is no Greg Marshall, no Van Vleet, and no Baker. In 5 years we will know if a solid NBA career happens.

For the record I don't think Paul Miller is retirement worthy either.

Schools go on a nice run once in awhile and make a Sweet Sixteen almost every year. VERY rarely do they go on a 4-year run like those two did.

Hopefully the next LeBron comes to WSU, goes undefeated, wins Wooden Award, and leads the Shox to the national championship. That way his number can be retired ;)

[shockmonster]

Man at least some appreciate the best Point Guard in Shocker history.

[1972Shocker]

Cliff was a 3rd Team All American in Basketball Times, which was somewhat akin to Athlon's current rag. There used to be (maybe it remains?) a typo in the media guide listing him as an AA in one or two of the consensus sources, but that was inaccurate to the extent it showed him as anything beyond honorable mention.

I think that is correct. Her is was it shows in Cliff's Shocker Hall of Fame Bio:

A two-time first-team all-Missouri Valley Conference selection and a third team All-American by Basketball Times, Levingston left WSU as the Shockers¹ eighth all-time leading scorer (1,471 points), fourth all-time rebounder (965), and the fifth all-time leading shooter at 53.8 percent (597-1,110).

http://goshockers.com/news/2015/6/23/MBB_0623151427.aspx

[1972Shocker]

I don't think there is any set waiting period for having a player's jersey retired. However, for induction into the Shocker Hall of Fame their is a 5-year waiting period. It would seem a little odd to retire their Jersey's then wait 5-years to put them in the Shocker Hall of Fame. Perhaps they would consider waiving the waiting period and taking care of it all at once.

[12eagle]

Some need to realize what an honor it is to be in the Shocker Hall Of fame. Only 18 basketball players since 1960 Have even made the shocker hall of fame. Baker and VanVleet are Shocker Hall Of Famers no questions asked but retiring their jerseys is a different discussion. Also its not like the program was nothing before they got here we were a 5 seed the year before they got here. The reason we have been so good isn't because of baker and van vleets singular excellence it is that Marshall was about to put together a number of top 50 all time shockers on the same team, which made them better than the sum of their parts.

[ShockdaWorld]

Most steals and assists In the HISTORY of the program, but that's not singular excellence? Please.

[Shock Top]

Most steals and assists In the HISTORY of the program, but that's not singular excellence? Please.

Nope!

Neither is being two time conference player of the year! ;)

[Cdizzle]

This is starting to sound like a lot of the logic other folks around the league use when trying to exclude WSU players from 1st Team All-Valley. "They were only that good because of the other players, and the coach, and, and, and, and"

Somewhere. Somehow. The was a HECK of a lot of talent on the past several teams. It shouldn't be overlooked just because there were other decent players and a great coach.

If 18 players have made the SHOF from 1960-2006, that's 2.25 per NCAA tournament appearance, and 3 per MVC Championship. If you go 2007-present and include, say, Murry, Cotton, Early, VanVleet, and Baker, that's just 1 per NCAA tournament appearance and 1.25 per MVC Championship. More than half of the program's NCAA tournament wins have come in the last 4 years.

Relative to the program, and the country, the best players on these recent teams stack up remarkably well against the best players in WSU history. I'm not worried about the right thing happening, in time.

[1972Shocker]

It is interesting that we only have forwards and no guards or centers in the rafters.

[EB 22]

Man at least some appreciate the best Point Guard in Shocker history.

For as great as Fred VanVleet was for our program. Let's not be so quick to discredit Warren Armstrong.

20th all time in points
7th all time in rebounding (Averaged 10.8 rpg in his career)
3rd all time in assists (7.5 apg his senior year and a record 5.5 apg for his career)
Four Triple Doubles
Steals weren't recorded then
3x All Valley
Drafted in both the NBA and ABA Draft
Former ABA Champion, Rookie of the Year, All Star and Finals MVP

Not bad for a 6-2 guard who played 78 games in just three years.

[wsushox1]

Cleanthony is what made the truly "great" shocker teams of recent (2013,2014) what they were. With him being a walking match-up it took so much pressure off of Ron and Fred on the offensive side of the floor.

To not have his number retired, excuse my french, would be bull ****.

Ron and Fred are home runs.

Retire jersey's, not numbers. This isn't that hard.

[ShockdaWorld]

Cleanthony is what made the truly "great" shocker teams of recent (2013,2014) what they were. With him being a walking match-up it took so much pressure off of Ron and Fred on the offensive side of the floor.

To not have his number retired, excuse my french, would be bull ****.

Ron and Fred are home runs.

Retire jersey's, not numbers. This isn't that hard.

I would not argue against Cle either.