Musings from the 1st Row

[Yellow Bellied]

Yup, we've lost the whole 'playing angry' thing. We don't have any mojo right now. If the present trend continues, this will be one of the most underperforming teams in Shocker history.

And no one can figure out why it's happening.

Because the team may all have the same goal, but different (or no)plans how to get there. And as much as I love Fred and am not intentionally picking on him. The best I've heard from any of our team - coaches included is "let em hang" Good for style points, but not all that good a plan.

[shocka khan]

Chill with the hyperbole.

No hyperbole about it. My expectation was that we would be a FF4 team this year. I don't see a road for us to get there this year. That's my opinion.

And not only that, both RB and FVV have regressed statistically from their Junior years to their Senior year. That's not hyperbole, either. No matter how we want to paint this picture, most casual observers will agree that there's something wrong with this team that's causing them to underachieve and there are analytical facts out there to back it up.

Otherwise, with two pre-season AA's we should have had a top ten team (or at least a top-20 team after Fred's injury) and no worse than a #5 seeding.

[Play Angry]

Oh. Here is the hyperbole:

If the present trend continues, this will be one of the most underperforming teams in Shocker history.

And no one can figure out why it's happening.

Hope that clears up any confusion.

[shocka khan]

Preseason ranking #12 Coach's poll:

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings/_/year/2016/poll/2/week/1/seasontype/2

Preseason writer's poll #10:

http://collegebasketball.ap.org/poll/2016/1

I hope the Shox will go to the FF (or at least the Elite 8), but I don't think they're going to.

The reason I think they will be one of the greatest underperformers is that we had two pre-season AA's and relatively high rankings in both polls. I'm figuring that neither will be AA's at the end of the season.

So, I'm willing to ask you, can you name a Shocker team that has had such high expectations, yet failed to deliver? Perhaps the 1982 team, but that was because of the letdown due to NCAA sanctions which were slapped on a team that had nothing to do with the violations that occurred.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wichita_State_Shockers_men%27s_basketball

This year's team can't blame Harry Miller or the NCAA for their performance.

[pie n eye]

Again on the bright side here. IF we get into the tournament, and I say if because I have no idea one way or the other what the committee will decide, but if we do get in I will be happy for UNI and the Valley. As much as I've grown to dislike Elgin and his head of morons Watkins, I'm still a Valley fan and would be glad to see us get two teams in because it's a tougher league than it gets credit for and I would relish in the subsequent whining from P5 honks.

Not to mention, UNI has again exposed our flaws. When we address them and play LIKE A TEAM on offense we are almost unstoppable. When we don't we still have a chance to win any game.

I'm just guessing but I think the extra bickering and calling out players and coaches is just understandable frustration that stems from the disappointment of losing in STL, again, and the anxiousness that loss created in terms of will we or won't we get an at large.

Somebody just please get Kung Wu some laxatives for this next week.

[shocka khan]

Again on the bright side here. IF we get into the tournament, and I say if because I have no idea one way or the other what the committee will decide, but if we do get in I will be happy for UNI and the Valley. As much as I've grown to dislike Elgin and his head of morons Watkins, I'm still a Valley fan and would be glad to see us get two teams in because it's a tougher league than it gets credit for and I would relish in the subsequent whining from P5 honks.

Not to mention, UNI has again exposed our flaws. When we address them and play LIKE A TEAM on offense we are almost unstoppable. When we don't we still have a chance to win any game.

I'm just guessing but I think the extra bickering and calling out players and coaches is just understandable frustration that stems from the disappointment of losing in STL, again, and the anxiousness that loss created in terms of will we or won't we get an at large.

Somebody just please get Kung Wu some laxatives for this next week.

While I understand your point, it does not change my opinion. Also, I see you using the word IF. I don't think anyone would have used that word at the beginning of the season, I would prefer being realistic than ballistic. Perhaps I will be pleasantly surprised :)

[Play Angry]

This year's team can't blame Harry Miller or the NCAA for their performance.

Right. No injuries either, eh?

23-5 w/FVV in the lineup. 22-4 at full-strength.

Spinal concussion to the most productive front court player causing him to miss 4+ games.

Season-ending injury to the most productive bench back court player following the third game of the year.

1-6 record in games decided by 5 points or less.

And yet...still #10 among tournament-eligible teams in the most comprehensive quantitative rating system for college basketball as of today. And the season is not close to over yet.

So yes, pretending that there is some cataclysmic, unexplainable force exists that has led to a disastrous season of underachievement is hyperbole.

[shocka khan]

Right. No injuries either, eh?

1. 23-5 w/FVV in the lineup. 22-4 at full-strength.

2. Spinal concussion to the most productive front court player causing him to miss 4+ games.

3. Season-ending injury to the most productive bench back court player following the third game of the year.

4. 1-6 record in games decided by 5 points or less.

And yet...still #10 among tournament-eligible teams in the most comprehensive quantitative rating system for college basketball as of today. And the season is not close to over yet.

So yes, pretending that there is some cataclysmic, unexplainable force exists that has led to a disastrous season of underachievement is hyperbole.

There was no excuse for losing to UNI twice. That eliminates your #1 and #2. Washpun made Fred look bad in both games. Grady played a very good game on Saturday and it hurt us when he fouled out.

#3 I will give you.

#4 gets back to the fact that we don't 'play angry' any more. Perhaps I'm spoiled, but I think the last two or three years we would have willed ourselves to winning most of those games.

We are just going to have to disagree what underachievement means. What I saw against Loyola and UNI was underachievement. We coughed up 10 point plus leads in both games. We got lucky in the first game and lost the second.

[shockmonster]

So very true. The statement is also valid. That was not a great coaching or execution display...in either game or for most of the last two months. I'm honestly concerned about the state of the program for the first time in a long time.

The last five regular season games prior to the 2 game tournament were dominated by the Shox by 25+ points and nary a one voiced concerns. We actually had 3 iffy games in the middle of a dominating run. Now we lose a game and you mention poor execution. No one likes a loss or two but don't change facts afterward.

[kochHead]

All this is bla lba lbba;ogjfahgnviuahgnafuihnouah;;o;;l;lk;ljjkjoi;ah rfub hivausvhahb uauibvhb hub hahvb dafab jn bjbhbbv

IF WE SHOT 17% FROM 3 WE WOULD HAVE WON. 17%!!!!

I know this is oversimplification, and I could say a whole lot more, but **** guys we shot 8% from 3. If Fred hits the shot at the end of regulation, or we happen to make an effing shot somewhere else along the way, it's "damn, we are so tough, and we find a way to win" and "we are a grind it out team" and other such statements. However, miss a **** ton of shots and lose and we dissect every little thing the coach, the players did, and the refs did. I am just ranting guys, but you get my point. Maybe coach didn't do everthing right, but did Ben Jacobson make a 3 with a guys hand in his face during OT? Did Marshall miss the game winning shot?

As for his conduct. He's a dick sometimes, and to witness it in person is probably more unsettling, but I don't give a F##K. This is big business, and big dicks swing big sticks. Anyone want to go back to a nice coach who loses 20 games a season?

[jdmee]

So, I'm willing to ask you, can you name a Shocker team that has had such high expectations, yet failed to deliver? Perhaps the 1982 team, but that was because of the letdown due to NCAA sanctions which were slapped on a team that had nothing to do with the violations that occurred.

I will give you one.

In 2006–07, the Shockers entered the season with high expectations, and surged out to a 9–0 start, including a revenge-win over George Mason, as well as road victories over #6 LSU and #14 Syracuse. WSU rose as high as #8 in both the AP and Coaches' Polls on December 18, 2006,[5] but the Shockers would struggle for much of the rest of the season, falling from the rankings and finishing 17–14, including only eight conference wins, for Turgeon's second worst mark as WSU head coach.

[Play Angry]

There was no excuse for losing to UNI twice. That eliminates your #1 and #2.

Nope. Your assertion infers any loss with FVV back negates the argument that his absence hurt us. This doesn't hold water.

Our winning percentage was still .846 during that stretch, including those losses to UNI. And, even counting the games where he is absent, we are the 10th rated tournament-eligible team from a comprehensive statistical standpoint.

#4 gets back to the fact that we don't 'play angry' any more. Perhaps I'm spoiled, but I think the last two or three years we would have willed ourselves to winning most of those games.

It is just how statistics work. You win some close games, you lose some close games. We could just as easily be 6-1 in those close games and it would be just as anomalous. If you want to call it bad luck instead, then I am definitely with you. But I have not seen a lack of effort or intensity this season.

We are just going to have to disagree what underachievement means.

Season still not over.

[shocka khan]

Nice discussion, good points being made, but how about this (taken from another discussion topic):

http://mweb.cbssports.com/ncaab/eye-on-college-basketball/25507276/why-wichita-state-is-the-most-polarizing-bubble-team-in-history

"The Shockers are 1-5 against teams currently projected in the field. And it lost to Seton Hall, Illinois State and Northern Iowa twice with VanVleet in the lineup. Marshall made mention of VanVleet also being hurt in the Tulsa game, but the fact is the committee will evaluate Wichita State as being at full strength in the game because VanVleet opted to play."

I hope we do get in, and I realize the season's not over, but there's no reason to assume that our team will have a miraculous turn-around and go deep into the tourney.

[OregonShocker]

You know, there IS the possibility that UNI is a good team. Better than us? Well...I don't think so, but... I thought the Valley was gonna be tough early in the season after some of the big time non-conference wins and then it sorta poofed out. I still want out of the Valley if we find the right fit, but there's no disrespect in calling the conference worthy of two teams in the big dance.

[DUShock]

You know, there IS the possibility that UNI is a good team. Better than us? Well...I don't think so, but... I thought the Valley was gonna be tough early in the season after some of the big time non-conference wins and then it sorta poofed out. I still want out of the Valley if we find the right fit, but there's no disrespect in calling the conference worthy of two teams in the big dance.

Your post has me thinking that UNI is currently the best team in the Valley. They have the record to prove it as they have won 12 out of their last 13 games. Their only loss is to Loyola, couple this with wins over 3 ranked teams (#1 UNC, #5 Iowa, & #25 WSU) it is difficult to argue. I think they are capable and will make a good run in the Dance. If given the chance, I can see the current WSU team going 1 and done or going very deep (Elite 8 or better) but I don't know which team will show up.

Go Valley!

Go Shocks!!