Musings from the 1st Row

[im4wsu]

From my post De3cember 13th

Ken Pom has Seton Hall winning 66-65 with WSU 47% odds to win. With our last two wins, the projection has improved to 22-8 from 20-10

My only point being that WSU was expected to lose 3 or more conference games at various times before the conference season began. We lost TWO.

http://shockernet.net/forum/showthread.php?20977-WSU-Versus-Seton-Hall-Predictions-and-Pregame-Discussions&p=609306&viewfull=1#post609306

[pie n eye]

I wonder how folks would have characterized 2012-13 at this point in the season, having just **** the bed to blow the regular season crown and suffering our 2nd loss in 3 tries against Creighton.

I remember feeling pretty down about that team. That's why they say it ain't over til it's over.

[WSUwatcher]

The thought has crossed my mind already of what if he came back for the MVC tourney rather than getting the redshirt ...

Unfortunately, he said he wasn't physically ready even to practice. I wish he had been, and the Landry of November probably would have made a difference -- but that guy isn't available yet.

[Stickboy46]

Unfortunately, he said he wasn't physically ready even to practice. I wish he had been, and the Landry of November probably would have made a difference -- but that guy isn't available yet.

Hmm .. I thought I heard more recently that he was starting to look really good in practice, but it was after the redshirt decision had been made.

[OregonShocker]

Good grief, I leave ShockRef alone with the laptop for a few hours and look at the havoc he's wreaked!

It's what happens when someone with a sore toe gets their foot stepped on!

[WSUwatcher]

UNI is a good team, and they're better than us. 2-1 against WSU this year, proves they're better. Let's not be KU fans and ignore the final score or results, and say "Yeah, well on paper we're better."

Right, kai -- and Loyola is better than the UNIs (2-0, which is even better than UNI's 2-1 vs. the Shocks). The UNIs have a good team, and they're playing well right now, and they had some breaks go their way Saturday (Carlson's three, for example). But calling them better flies in the face of the record. Sometimes teams are tough matchups for others, but "better" is usually determined by more than just a specific game.

Not that it really matters; that's why they play the games and give awards to the team that actually wins -- not to the one that's "better." "Better" is just barroom (or Internet) semantics.

[Stickboy46]

Right, kai -- and Loyola is better than the UNIs (2-0, which is even better than UNI's 2-1 vs. the Shocks). The UNIs have a good team, and they're playing well right now, and they had some breaks go their way Saturday (Carlson's three, for example). But calling them better flies in the face of the record. Sometimes teams are tough matchups for others, but "better" is usually determined by more than just a specific game.

Not that it really matters; that's why they play the games and give awards to the team that actually wins -- not to the one that's "better." "Better" is just barroom (or Internet) semantics.

Agreed, we missed open shots against them that we didn't miss against a lot of the conference. That's the biggest reason they won. Very few shots were really affected by their defense.

[Slalomshocker]

Winning a crapshoot conference tourney doesn’t mean you are/aren’t big enough for a conference.

You want to tell Butler or VCU they weren’t big enough for their conferences after making it into the field without winning them? That didn’t hold them back from making it out of obscurity.

KU wins the regular season every year, but do they win the conference tourney every year? No. Why? Upsets happen. Other teams have good nights. Sometimes luck *gasp* is not on your side.

Whether WSU makes it out of the MVC or not, their performance in STL will have no effect on it (except for their fan support, which they have in spades)

I missed KU begging to get out of the B12 because they were too good for it? Go look back at the entire season+ at all of the comments that WSU is too big for the MVC. Every derogatory comment. Each 20+point margin of victory carried more claim that WSU is too good for this 'crap league'. If WSU is too big for this league, WSU would have walked away with the tournament crown. The MVC is not a good league this year. UNI has played up to its potentially lately, and is currently a nice team. My point though is simple. If WSU fans are trying to make the statement that WSU has outgrown the MVC....you have to back it up. And WSU has backed that statement up 1 time in 30 years.

For what its worth, I do agree that the conference tournaments are a crap shoot. But the outright arrogance WSU fans have been displaying all season regarding the MVC and WSUs place ABOVE it.... and it is evident in this thread as well. I'm not saying I wouldn't absolutely LOVE to get out of the MVC. But by no means is WSU far and above this league.

[Ricardo del Rio]

I agree with ShockerRef about Chris Jans.

Most all great leaders have a sidekick, who provides wise counsel.

When someone begins to think that he has all of the answers, look out below.

[Stickboy46]

I missed KU begging to get out of the B12 because they were too good for it? Go look back at the entire season+ at all of the comments that WSU is too big for the MVC. Every derogatory comment. Each 20+point margin of victory carried more claim that WSU is too good for this 'crap league'. If WSU is too big for this league, WSU would have walked away with the tournament crown. The MVC is not a good league this year. UNI has played up to its potentially lately, and is currently a nice team. My point though is simple. If WSU fans are trying to make the statement that WSU has outgrown the MVC....you have to back it up. And WSU has backed that statement up 1 time in 30 years.

For what its worth, I do agree that the conference tournaments are a crap shoot. But the outright arrogance WSU fans have been displaying all season regarding the MVC and WSUs place ABOVE it.... and it is evident in this thread as well. I'm not saying I wouldn't absolutely LOVE to get out of the MVC. But by no means is WSU far and above this league.

The MVC is a primary reason we are on the bubble. Having 18-21 straight games against teams that can ONLY be bad losses and zero chances for quality wins, is why WSU has outgrown the MVC.

[Shock Top]

I missed KU begging to get out of the B12 because they were too good for it? Go look back at the entire season+ at all of the comments that WSU is too big for the MVC. Every derogatory comment. Each 20+point margin of victory carried more claim that WSU is too good for this 'crap league'. If WSU is too big for this league, WSU would have walked away with the tournament crown. The MVC is not a good league this year. UNI has played up to its potentially lately, and is currently a nice team. My point though is simple. If WSU fans are trying to make the statement that WSU has outgrown the MVC....you have to back it up. And WSU has backed that statement up 1 time in 30 years.

For what its worth, I do agree that the conference tournaments are a crap shoot. But the outright arrogance WSU fans have been displaying all season regarding the MVC and WSUs place ABOVE it.... and it is evident in this thread as well. I'm not saying I wouldn't absolutely LOVE to get out of the MVC. But by no means is WSU far and above this league.

You miss MY point. Simply stating WSU isn't too big for the MVC based solely on their success in STL is ludicrous.

Creighton dominated Arch Madness when they were in the league. How many appearances did they make in the Sweet Sixteen? Final Four? ....I'll wait.

WSU brings more fans, money, and success then all the other Valley schools combined. Period.

Bottom line: If it wasn't for WSU, the general public would give a rats a$$ about the MVC. That is why WSU has outgrown the MVC.

[OregonShocker]

My point though is simple. If WSU fans are trying to make the statement that WSU has outgrown the MVC....you have to back it up.

I'd say that basing one's worth on a tourney outcome as opposed to a season long accumulation of data points is pretty foolish.

[Ol skool]

I remember feeling pretty down about that team. That's why they say it ain't over til it's over.

I have to consider the chemistry theory. Senior Perimeter players would look low for shaq or Grady. If that wasn't there they seemed to dribble around until one of the other senior players were open. There was very little ball reversal. It's like the two seniors took it upon themselves to carry the full load and at times seem to ignore anyone else. Unless it was the last option. That can effect overall team rhythm. And offensively rhythm is everything.

[ShockingButTrue]

I'd say that basing one's worth on a tourney outcome as opposed to a season long accumulation of data points is pretty foolish.

Yeah right.

If you want some stimulating conversation about that type of tom-foolery go over to the Panther board. Or better yet, just go over to phog.net any day of the week.

[Shock Top]

I'd say that basing one's worth on a tourney outcome as opposed to a season long accumulation of data points is pretty foolish.

Shh....

Just ignore the fact WSU is 51-3 in the MVC regular season over the past 3 seasons, because those games don't matter. ;)