Louisville

[ShockdaWorld]

Anybody that thinks Pitino was clueless in this situation, I'd like to sell you some ocean front property in West Wichita.

[Kung Wu]

Anybody that thinks Pitino was clueless in this situation, I'd like to sell you some ocean front property in West Wichita.

He was clueless. There's NO WAY he knew it was happening.

[SHOXAAC]

Anybody that thinks Pitino was clueless in this situation, I'd like to sell you some ocean front property in West Wichita.

Which direction from the turnpike?

[gdb620]

Give us your better way.

Punishment is hard and collateral damage happens. There have to be deterrents in whatever system there is or don't have any rules and let everyone have "open season".

Wish I were clever enough to come up with the answer. But you don't have to be a genius to see the problems. When the perpetrators can walk away while innocent people take the punishment, that's not a good system.

Maybe the first step would be to drop the pretense of amateurism and pay the athletes. I don't know. I was against allowing professionals in the Olympics, but that seems to have worked out okay.

[Shocker1976]

Give us your better way.

Punishment is hard and collateral damage happens. There have to be deterrents in whatever system there is or don't have any rules and let everyone have "open season".

Hang the penalty around the neck of the coach (offender); having the penalty travel with the coach (offender) should go along way in solving this problem.

This would also be appropriate for such situations as the rampant academic fraud committed by UNC.

[shockmonster]

Hang the penalty around the neck of the coach (offender); having the penalty travel with the coach (offender) should go along way in solving this problem.

This would also be appropriate for such situations as the rampant academic fraud committed by UNC.

What about the times when boosters pay players? Is the head coach involved every time? Can these things be proven with a smoking gun? Loopholes? Rarely do you know everyone who is involved.

[im4wsu]

Hang the penalty around the neck of the coach (offender); having the penalty travel with the coach (offender) should go along way in solving this problem.

This would also be appropriate for such situations as the rampant academic fraud committed by UNC.

This! The penalty couldn't really be suspension/recruiting or that would again be punishing the kids on the new team that had even less to do with the original violation. It seems like what is left is money...big money.

For the offending school, I still very fond of the concept of having that school not only write, but also publicly hand-deliver a large check to the opposing coaches/athletic directors/presidents.
For the offending coach, how about some fine in the neighborhood of the greater of (1) 100% of his salary at the offending school times the number of years the violations occurred or (2) 75% of his current salary times the number of years the violations occurred. These dollars would be paid to either (a) to charities designated by the previous conference coaches or (b) a not-for-profit fund established for the purpose of providing scholarships for attending schools in the previous conference and administered independently outside the auspices of the NCAA control.

I would NOT include any post-season ban to the offending school but would designate that any dollars derived by the offending school over and above the NCAA approved travel expenses would be added to the penalty otherwise assessed against the offending school.

Somehow the idea of a Texas AD handing the AD of Texas A&M and/or Oklahoma a check for $1,000,000 in front of the media cameras intrigues me.

[Dave Stalwart]

Ever seen a movie were the hero isn't afraid to fight or die before he would do something the villain wants so the villain grabs his girl or family and threatens to kill them instead? All the sudden the hero has to comply.

These head coaches and the "program" are the girl or the family that universities, boosters and fans would do anything to protect.

Point being, unceremoniously FIRE and suspend from D-1 any presiding head coach along with anyone else involved in the situation and you won't have to deal with boosters paying players anymore or assistant coaches hiring prostitutes, etc. Even if the coach has no knowledge of it. And suspend the program for a significant amount of time. Release the recruits and all current players for an "eligible immediately" transfer, and start over trying to field a team with no hope of a postseason for the entire career of your first wave of new recruits. These people are acting as if they are "fences" or middle men for the head coach to protect him while they take care of the risk involved with the paying of players for him. If they all knew their program was toast if they got caught, they might rethink how bravely they wanted to risk cheating on the recruiting.

These days the boosters know that when they get caught it's such a minor punishment that it's worth the risk. The deterrent factor is not firmly in place.

The fact that the NCAA drags their feet and fails to punish things is ridiculous. Its not like it's the end of the world if North Carolina and Louisville have to release all their recruits, fire their head coach and take a program suspension of the same number of years that the cheating was found to be taking place. Some would say "that's too harsh"... Is it harsher than what cheating to win titles does to every other D1 program? It completely undermines all of college sports. The punishment needs to start being good enough to stop this stuff.

[Shoxthemonkey]

This! The penalty couldn't really be suspension/recruiting or that would again be punishing the kids on the new team that had even less to do with the original violation. It seems like what is left is money...big money.

For the offending school, I still very fond of the concept of having that school not only write, but also publicly hand-deliver a large check to the opposing coaches/athletic directors/presidents.
For the offending coach, how about some fine in the neighborhood of the greater of (1) 100% of his salary at the offending school times the number of years the violations occurred or (2) 75% of his current salary times the number of years the violations occurred. These dollars would be paid to either (a) to charities designated by the previous conference coaches or (b) a not-for-profit fund established for the purpose of providing scholarships for attending schools in the previous conference and administered independently outside the auspices of the NCAA control.

I would NOT include any post-season ban to the offending school but would designate that any dollars derived by the offending school over and above the NCAA approved travel expenses would be added to the penalty otherwise assessed against the offending school.

Somehow the idea of a Texas AD handing the AD of Texas A&M and/or Oklahoma a check for $1,000,000 in front of the media cameras intrigues me.

Jackie Sherrill and Barry Switzer say that your example is ass backwards.

[shockmonster]

In the Louisville case, they investigated and know how bad their case is. They self imposed penalties for ONE YEAR because they know how egregious their penalty was. The boosters would never be in favor of canning Pitino. It was Pitino's fault (if he really didn't know) to hire an Asst. Coach that was that clueless. It was the schools and boosters fault to hire people that want to win so bad they lost sight of "right and wrong". This is not a small time scandal that happened once. It was a huge problem.


This case is like Hillary Clinton, and the entire Democratic Party blaming the Clinton fiasco (that happened for decades) on Monica Lewinsky and the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. Hillary knew what he had been doing (Paula Jones, Flowers, etc. etc. etc.), and so did the Democrat Party and they turned their backs on all of the women that were abused. All they cared about was maintaining their POWER.

The NCAA hasn't always been wrong in their enforcement. Where they have been wrong is that they punished smaller schools and let the powerschools do what they wanted without fear of penalties.

[Shoxthemonkey]

Take that crap to the proper forum.

[ShockdaWorld]

He was clueless. There's NO WAY he knew it was happening.

Wow...I hope my meter is just off.

[Kung Wu]

Ever seen a movie were the hero isn't afraid to fight or die before he would do something the villain wants so the villain grabs his girl or family and threatens to kill them instead? All the sudden the hero has to comply.

These head coaches and the "program" are the girl or the family that universities, boosters and fans would do anything to protect.

Point being, unceremoniously FIRE and suspend from D-1 any presiding head coach along with anyone else involved in the situation and you won't have to deal with boosters paying players anymore or assistant coaches hiring prostitutes, etc. Even if the coach has no knowledge of it. And suspend the program for a significant amount of time. Release the recruits and all current players for an "eligible immediately" transfer, and start over trying to field a team with no hope of a postseason for the entire career of your first wave of new recruits. These people are acting as if they are "fences" or middle men for the head

. . .

program? It completely undermines all of college sports. The punishment needs to start being good enough to stop this stuff.

The big glaring hole here is if I want Bill Self fired (as a WSU fan), I simply give a few grand to one of their recruits at a party and make sure someone "accidentally" records it.

It's way too easy to get someone fired and decimate a program at a different school, for something they had no knowledge of or control over in your solution.

[Kung Wu]

Wow...I hope my meter is just off.

Not at all. We are 100% in disagreement about Pitino knowing that McGee was getting his rocks off.

McGee was simply "big timing" and trying to act like the man, show off, and party. Simple. The LAST thing he wanted was Pitino to find out, I promise you that.

[Kung Wu]

For the offending coach, how about some fine in the neighborhood of the greater of (1) 100% of his salary at the offending school times the number of years the violations occurred or (2) 75% of his current salary times the number of years the violations occurred. These dollars would be paid to either (a) to charities designated by the previous conference coaches or (b) a not-for-profit fund established for the purpose of providing scholarships for attending schools in the previous conference and administered independently outside the auspices of the NCAA control.

These penalties are unreasonable. Most NCAA coaches (even D1) are not wealthy. They cannot pay a full years salary -- that's just crazy and the punishment would not fit the crime.

In this case you are talking about an assistant that probably made $50k to 75k. He wouldn't be able to feed his family for years.

He should simply be blackballed from the sport at all levels the NCAA controls, for at least 5 years or so -- that includes D1, D2, D3, NAIA, and NJCAA (all divs).

Fining the school makes sense too.