Coaches show

[Shockthemonkey]

While I believe Ron to be one of the greats at WSU, these are the reasons why I know Fred is one of our Top 10 all time. Not sure I'd put Ron there yet. How would this team look right now if Ron had been injured/missed the games Fred did and Fred had been healthy? Brown could have played the 2 as well as Taylor and Ty wouldn't have had near the pressure he did playing point. Not a knock on Ron at all. Fred is special as in Stallworth, X-Man, Carr special.

I would tend to agree with this but then here is the question. I believe one if not both are banner in the rafters material. Do you hang Fred's # without Ron's? Together they were so special similar to Antoine and Cliff.

[ShockdaWorld]

IMO, they are both top 10, although most of my historical knowledge comes from reading and watching old videos, as I wasn't around until the late 90's. That being said, I do think FVV deserves to be a spot or two ahead of Ron.

[Kel Varnsen]

I would tend to agree with this but then here is the question. I believe one if not both are banner in the rafters material. Do you hang Fred's # without Ron's? Together they were so special similar to Antoine and Cliff.

Both of their numbers belong in the rafters. At least in my opinion.

[ShockdaWorld]

I would tend to agree with this but then here is the question. I believe one if not both are banner in the rafters material. Do you hang Fred's # without Ron's? Together they were so special similar to Antoine and Cliff.

Hang them both!!

[Stickboy46]

Hang them both!!

Seems a little harsh. I mean i know we don't want them to leave, but can't figure that would be good for recruiting.

[WstateU]

While I believe Ron to be one of the greats at WSU, these are the reasons why I know Fred is one of our Top 10 all time. Not sure I'd put Ron there yet. How would this team look right now if Ron had been injured/missed the games Fred did and Fred had been healthy? Brown could have played the 2 as well as Taylor and Ty wouldn't have had near the pressure he did playing point. Not a knock on Ron at all. Fred is special as in Stallworth, X-Man, Carr special.

I agree with your comments about Fred; he’s one of the best collegiate point guards I’ve seen. I believe we have a chance to win a National Championship with Fred at the helm. He’s the best at making everyone around him better. For those reasons, Fred’s in my top 5.

I’ve been watching WSU basketball for 50+ years and I’m 100% convinced that both Ron and Fred are top 10 players. Ron cemented his place by making the Pan Am team and starting and playing more minutes than Denzel Valentine and other collegiate All-Americans. Ron does so many things well and his defense is still vastly underrated. I believe it was Kentucky’s Aaron Harrison that told him, "you are a bad, bad boy". Both Ron and Fred’s jerseys will ‘deservedly’ hang from the rafters very soon. “I guarantee it!”

My Top 10 (I know, wrong thread)

1. Dave Stallworth
2. Xavier McDaniel
3. Cleo Littleton
4. Antoine Carr
5. Fred VanVleet
6. Ron Baker
7. Warren Jabali
8. Gene Wiley
9. Cliff Levingston
10. Cheese Johnson
10 A. Cleanthony Early

[Dan]

IMO, they are both top 10, although most of my historical knowledge comes from reading and watching old videos, as I wasn't around until the late 90's. That being said, I do think FVV deserves to be a spot or two ahead of Ron.

Your true fandom will be judged on whether you're still around after a decade like the one we had right before you started watching.

[ShockTalk]

I would tend to agree with this but then here is the question. I believe one if not both are banner in the rafters material. Do you hang Fred's # without Ron's? Together they were so special similar to Antoine and Cliff.

Won't disagree, but I questioned retiring Cliff's #, so your argument is somewhat less for me. However, that precedent, for me anyway, should open the door to others. What about the other top players of our first F4? I'd put some of them right there with Ron. Stallworth didn't do it by himself.

I don't know if we'd gotten to our last F4 without Ron, but I'm pretty sure we wouldn't have without Cle.

How about Warren Armstrong Jabali or Aubrey Sherrod in place of Ron for these last 4 years. Talk about eye-popping!

I'm biased, but I think there is little difference in Ron and Jason Perez.

[Dave Stalwart]

Mike said the Indiana State beat writer believes Fred is the best Valley player in the 12 years he has been covering the league.

I suppose you could say that, measured in years, Fred is the most talented player 1-12 in the league.

[Cdizzle]

I don't quite buy the doom and gloom of the "Look what we were without FVV" angle. You took away the teams primary ball-handler, his first backup, his second backup, and gave the team 3 days to prepare to deal with it. That's a lot different than recruiting to replace the player with his scholarship, and not being beset by injuries.

[Stickboy46]

I don't quite buy the doom and gloom of the "Look what we were without FVV" angle. You took away the teams primary ball-handler, his first backup, his second backup, and gave the team 3 days to prepare to deal with it. That's a lot different than recruiting to replace the player with his scholarship, and not being beset by injuries.

AND 3 games in 4 days against RPI Top 40 teams ... People forget that.

[WstateU]

I'm biased, but I think there is little difference in Ron and Jason Perez.

Can't disagree much; one should be in the top 10, while the other top 20. Jazon Perez will always be one of my favorites. Unfortunately, he wasn't athletic enough to play in the NBA.

[Dave Stalwart]

AND 3 games in 4 days against RPI Top 40 teams ... People forget that.

At the time, none of us were fully aware of how fantastic of a field that was. That was a really strong tournament in hindsight. That's another thing that makes it SO SAD that we weren't at full strength. Had we won that tournament, we'd be practically #1

[ShockdaWorld]

Your true fandom will be judged on whether you're still around after a decade like the one we had right before you started watching.

I can understand that. I was a Broncos fan before Elway came to town and have been ever since, so I do understand sticking with your team through the tough times.

[Shockthemonkey]

I would agree that both go up. Ron's contributions are huge and he's been through it all. Lets just hope both their stories end with a great final chapter! The bar is set way way high and its hard to think what it will be like when they are gone. But enough of that, lets go kick some panther ass!!!!!!