WSU Versus Saint Louis Predictions and Pregame Discussions

[Kung Wu]

I havent even read through this thread.

But after reading this I think Im going to take a break from Shockernet. This place has gone full retard.

Just wait 'til you get to the idiot talking about Grady's medical redshirt possibility.

[shocka khan]

A quick Google search says he got a medical redshirt for the 2012-13 season.

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index...n_grady_h.html

Multiple medical redshirts have occurred. They are infrequent, the two I can come up with off the top of my head is Grandpa Gibbs at Creighton and Case Keenum, who was a quarterback at U of Houston and also was awarded two medical red shirts.

However, if Grady does go the medical redshirt route, that might foul up our scholarship count. My unofficial count is we might have 1 left, but it could just as possibly be zero.

[1972Shocker]

I view Evan as a player who can be a very valuable component on a good team that can utilize his strengths and doesn't really need to rely on him in those areas where he is average or below average. However, he clearly is not the kind of player that can carry a team in any particular area of play outside of coming up with loose balls in the rugby scrums. He knows the system, will set good screens and generally make good decisions and will be a great teammate. Asking him to do any more than that is to put him in a position beyond his capabilities. That might work on occasion but will not work consistently. To me Evan's ideal role on a team would be in a 6th man role. Unfortunately, this has not been an ideal season so far.

[WstateU]

Or did he already take a medical redshirt with his knee injury?

I don't know, what are you replying to ME for?

Me either, but you brought it up.

Guys, please settle down or take it to PM. Do we need to get the mods involved?



Cut it out Charlie... or is it Hank?

[CBB_Fan]

I'm guessing reading with comprehension isn't your strong suit and you didn't look at the link I posted to the team's statistics.

Wessel is averaging 1.5 fouls per game. Shaq 1.8. If Shaq played twice as much, he'd have slightly over 3.5. He'd also be averaging 9 points or so per game and 4 rebounds per game. Turnovers are about even Evan has .8, If Shaq was getting Evan's minutes he'd be at 1.2. You can't tell me who plays the better defense because you aren't quoting any defensive statistics (hint, I don't believe they are available at this time, if at all).

In other words, you have nothing except what you want to see (or make up). Here's a good made-up statistic that I've observed. No one sets better screens than Shaq does (on this team). How many points is that worth a game? When you can set a screen that absolutely flattens the opposing player, it's an open jump shot. I bet he'd be good for two or three of those per game.

Note that I'm perfectly open to your notion if you can provide us with some objective evidence, which you have not as of yet.

I quoted you a statistic. Shaq commits turnovers at a rate 4 TIMES that of Wessel. You seem to have misread Wessel's statline; he averages 0.3 TOs per game, not 0.8. That's a big deal. Even a single TO can be worth 4-6 points, as it can deprive a scoring possession from your team and give it to your opponent. Give Shaq Evan's minutes and he'd get 1-2 every single game, perhaps more from having a larger role in the offense. Evan not only has the least TOPG on the team except Van Vleet and Zach Bush, he has an A:TO ratio of 4.0, the best on the team. Shaq is 0.33.

If Shaq had Evan's minutes, he average 7.8 PG, 3.4 RPG, .38 APG, 1.13 TOPG, and 3.38 FPG. Evan averages 3.7, 2.5, 1.2, 0.3, 1.5. So playing Shaq (assuming he stays efficient and consistent and has the endurance to take the minutes) gets you 4.1 PPG. 0.9 rebounds. And again, big assumptions. The biggest issues Shaquille has had have been playing extended minutes, along with his work ethic and intensity. He missed over 50 practices his redshirt season and couldn't run a mile till he had a year in the system. He might not be able to play extended minutes, especially at the same productivity (mentally and physically). Evan Wessel is Mr. Dependable, and the coaching staff trusts him more.

If you to say more, go talk to the coaching staff. Its obvious you think you know more than them. I'm sure they don't know that Evan barely scores or that Shaq can set a good screen. You are just arguing to them with me a proxy.

[Kel Varnsen]

The correlation of winning and Evan Wessel goes so far it would take a fool to attribute it to 'coincidence'. That is not to say he is the answer to all problems. But ignoring the correlation is beyond silly.

Correlation does not imply causation. He has played on teams with some of this program's best players EVER.

Per KenPom, his usage rate over the last three years has been lower than 12% each year. Last year, that was below Corey Henderson, Ria'n Holland, and Rauno Nurger. So he plays a lot, but doesn't do much. They had more influence overall in the outcome of our season than he did.

[shocka khan]

Shaq and Evan don't even play the same position. This should be Shaq vs Wamukota or Evan vs McDuffie comparison.

And I'd much rather see McDuffie starting. However, if you're going to compare Shaq and Wamukota, I'd bet that a good Shaq is better than Wamukota at the top of his game.

There is no comparison between McDuffie and Evan. Better free throw percentage, better 3 point percentage, slightly better FG percentage, better rebounder and more steals. Evan has slightly better assist numbers, the fouls are about even.

Evan's a senior and McDuffie is a freshman, and Dan, you are correct about the comparisons. I just threw Shaq in there because there's a segment here that like to see him play at the 4. He doesn't play well at the 4 against way taller and more athletic players.

[calfan]

I think if Fred is back, WSU does fine.
If not, I think it is a close loss.

As for Grady, I wonder if he would be willing to come back and coach the young big men.
I feel like they need a personal coach.

I would hate to see him try to play and get hurt for life.

[Kung Wu]

I think of Evan as a forward stopper. But I also think of him as an open side flanker.

[Cdizzle]

Correlation does not imply causation. He has played on teams with some of this program's best players EVER.

Per KenPom, his usage rate over the last three years has been lower than 12% each year. Last year, that was below Corey Henderson, Ria'n Holland, and Rauno Nurger. So he plays a lot, but doesn't do much. They had more influence overall in the outcome of our season than he did.

I'll take "How to use Numbers Completely Incorrectly, for $600, Alex."

Also, I was not just referencing his time at WSU.

[shocka khan]

I'll take "How to use Numbers Completely Incorrectly, for $600, Alex."

Also, I was not just referencing his time at WSU.

Evan's shot turned to $hit after he broke his finger. He's never been the same since. I keep hoping he will get it back, but after 2+ years (and only one breakout game against KU), I don't think it will happen

[Stickboy46]

And I'd much rather see McDuffie starting. However, if you're going to compare Shaq and Wamukota, I'd bet that a good Shaq is better than Wamukota at the top of his game.

There is no comparison between McDuffie and Evan. Better free throw percentage, better 3 point percentage, slightly better FG percentage, better rebounder and more steals. Evan has slightly better assist numbers, the fouls are about even.

Evan's a senior and McDuffie is a freshman, and Dan, you are correct about the comparisons. I just threw Shaq in there because there's a segment here that like to see him play at the 4. He doesn't play well at the 4 against way taller and more athletic players.

While Shaq has a much much higher ceiling than Wamukota, There are very few people that have Wamukotas energy. I've been very impressed with how much effort he gives, and the excitement he builds in himself and the team. With that said, those 2 items don't put points on the board. So definitely a toos up there.

[pinstripers]

comparing fouls per game?

[Cdizzle]

Evan's shot turned to $hit after he broke his finger. He's never been the same since. I keep hoping he will get it back, but after 2+ years (and only one breakout game against KU), I don't think it will happen

I definitely think that accounts for his sophomore year, (that and it just kindof snowballed into a complete lack of shooting confidence). But he shot 36% last year (not amazing, certainly not terrible). He is off to a cold start this year for sure. Will be interesting to see how that number goes. My guess is up.

[kochHead]

Back to predictions...

I predict we score more points with Baker at the 2, regardless of any other combo on the floor. When baker has the ball at point he immediately gets doubled on any screen attempt and the result is usually not good. Our offence relies on a lot of pick and roll with the pg and in order to be effective IMO we need baker to be able to catch and shoot or make a quick move. The problem is once he is trapped we should have a short term 4 on 5 situation, but with our inexperience and lack of chemistry on offence we are ill equipped to take advantage.