For Those Who Think I'm All Negative

[KC Shox]

This season is going to test our ability to be patient. Short term success is simply not going to happen now. We could very well end up losing 5 - 7 non con games. We'll probably end up starting the regular season schedule below or at .500 and out of the rankings. However, when we start the MVC schedule is when we finally have FVV back at or almost at 100 percent and start making our run. When NCAA selection time comes, we'll have finally entered back into the rankings or be right on the fence. Some national experts will understand having FVV hurt us, others will point out our SOS and lack of good quality wins (since the crappy MVC won't help). We'll have 7-9 losses at selection time, but I think our recent success and developing national name recognition should positively influence us in getting a bid. Then it'll be 2012-13 all over again boyz.

[pie n eye]

I want to offer a different view of two opinions I've seen stated as facts. Anton Grady is too small, unathletic to play post. Even if I agreed with statement, who are we comparing him to? Karl Anthony Townes? Just look at the guys who've played center for the Shockers in the GM era.

Darius Carter - he was 6'7 with shoes and not exactly what I would call athletic or mobile. Grady looks quicker than Darius and he definitely has more post and and passing skills.

Chadrack Lufile/Kadeem Coleby - Ok, both of these guys are probably more athletic than Grady but neither was an OMG game changing athlete and, again, Grady has shown more basketball skills than either of them.

Carl Hall - Again, Carl Hall was probably 6'6 with shoes and dreads. Yes, he was a large, strong human being but wasn't much of a leaper himself. Carl's tenacity and physicality made up for his lack of endless post repertoire.

Garret Stutz/JT Durley - Stutz was certainly big. I liked JT a lot back in the day despite his insistence on roaming the perimeter.

All this is isn't to knock any of the past guys because they were all great and contributed in their own way. Is Grady perfect? No, but he's probably the most skilled post player we've had in a while. Height and athleticism are nice but I'd rather have a guy with a ton of basketball skills who is an average athlete and slightly undersized than the opposite.

The other thing is the idea of recruiting misses. Have their been some players that didn't work out? Sure. But we also had a kid who was forced to end his career before ever stepping on the court. Was that a miss? Rarely is he ever mentioned. Not only that but when was the last time we didn't have an above average point guard? Clevin, Ragland, Armstead, Fred...those hits have propelled the shockers to NIT championships, NCAA tourneys, and Final Fours. Fred might be the only "pure PG" (whatever that even means in today's basketball landscape) in that group. Add in Toure and Baker and I think Marshall has been fairly successful at handling combo guards.

Anyways, that's how I see it.

[Eric]

I'm still in the "wait and see" camp with Frankamp. He has yet to light it up in live action for us. Yes he won the 3 pt. contest at Shocker Madness, but once the scrimmage started, he disappeared. I will temper that by realizing he was being guarded by Ron Baker.

[shockmonster]

The year we won the NIT, it took Ragland most of the year to learn how to play point guard the way Gregg wants. He got it just before the Tournament. Much of the year, we were playing Murry at the point (which wasn't his best position at the time but he was our best option). This may be what happens after Fred leaves. This is why I think that Frankamp is our best option for a PG after Fred leaves (and Ron). Conner has had one year in our system (to watch Fred and see what Gregg wants) and will have the most seasoning at knowing Greggs wishes. While he is a shooter as is Taylor, it is about how to run the offense and the team.

One thing for Taylor is that he has a couple of weeks where he gets a lot of reps in practice and in games to prove that he is the one.

[Dan]

Darius was very athletic and mobile. He could play above the rim, unlike Grady. Grady has more savvy and probably a better under the basket player but he does have issues with mibility and explosiveness due to his old man knees.

[shockmonster]

I would describe Darius as a very mobile post who was only 6'7 but had a 7'2 wingspan. Anton is smart, and crafty with moves. Both were good rebounders. What we need is for Shaq to get his motor going and average between 6-8 rebounds a game to go along with Grady's all around game.

[shoxlax]

I want to offer a different view of two opinions I've seen stated as facts. Anton Grady is too small, unathletic to play post. Even if I agreed with statement, who are we comparing him to? Carl Anthony Townes? Just look at the guys who've played center for the Shockers in the GM era.

Darius Carter - he was 6'7 with shoes and not exactly what I would call athletic or mobile. Grady looks quicker and more explosive than Darius and he definitely has more post and and passing skills.

Chadrack Lufile/Kadeem Coleby - Ok, both of these guys are probably more athletic than Grady but neither was an OMG game changing athlete and, again, Grady has shown more basketball skills than either of them.

Carl Hall - Again, Carl Hall was probably 6'6 with shoes and dreads. Yes, he was a large, strong human being but wasn't much of a leaper himself. Carl's tenacity and physicality made up for his lack of endless post repertoire.

Garret Stutz/JT Durley - Stutz was certainly big. I liked JT a lot back in the day despite his insistence on roaming the perimeter.

All this is isn't to knock any of the past guys because they were all great and contributed in their own way. Is Grady perfect? No, but he's probably the most skilled post player we've had in a while. Height and athleticism are nice but I'd rather have a guy with a ton of basketball skills who is an average athlete and slightly undersized than the opposite.

The other thing is the idea of recruiting misses. Have their been some players that didn't work out? Sure. But we also had a kid who was forced to end his career before ever stepping on the court. Was that a miss? Rarely is he ever mentioned. Not only that but when was the last time we didn't have an above average point guard? Clevin, Ragland, Armstead, Fred...those hits have propelled the shockers to NIT championships, NCAA tourneys, and Final Fours. Fred might be the only "pure PG" (whatever that even means in today's basketball landscape) in that group. Add in Toure and Baker and I think Marshall has been fairly successful at handling combo guards.

Anyways, that's how I see it.

Darius had a 7' wingspan and a vertical in the mid 30s. He was athletic as hell.

Grady is who he is. Too valuable to not be playing, but not without his limitations. It's not a Grady problem, it's a team problem. Others need to step up and compensate/pick up for him sometimes. He can't chase people around the court 40 minutes every game.

[shoxlax]

I would describe Darius as a very mobile post who was only 6'7 but had a 7'2 wingspan. Anton is smart, and crafty with moves. Both were good rebounders. What we need is for Shaq to get his motor going and average between 6-8 rebounds a game to go along with Grady's all around game.

Post thief 😃

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

But talking about missing the NCAA Tournament 3 games in? Good Lord, settle the **** down.

If the Shox miss the NCAA Tourney this year, I'll personally ban myself from this board until the day that Fever misses me so much he posts a direct invitation for me to return.

In other words, Shox are in, just a matter of what seed they will get.

[SHOXAAC]

If the Shox miss the NCAA Tourney this year, I'll personally ban myself from this board until the day that Fever misses me so much he posts a direct invitation for me to return.

In other words, Shox are in, just a matter of what seed they will get.

I feel foreplay in the air.
:-)

[Ricardo del Rio]

I've been a Shocker fan since Dave Stallworth was a So. If it wasn't for WSU basketball, I probably wouldn't have known WSU existed.

Through an odd set of circumstances, I was close to the program over an extended period of time. Those I knew ranged from Ron Mendell to Gus Santos. I played intramurals against Mendell when he was a grad student and I was a Fr. I couldn't guard him. He could guard me - and that's putting it in polite terms.

I was well enough known by the players and did well enough in pickup games that I got invited to play in pickup games by the team. You will never understand the pace at which the game is played and the pressure to get you out of position until you are on the court with those guys.

I'm still taking a "wait and see" stance on Frankamp. I've identified some recruiting misses by Marshall. I'm skeptical of the Shox being an at large team with VanVleet and Shamet out of the lineup.

We've got the Fr and So's to take care of that problem, but they haven't shown that in a game yet. Until the Fr and So's show that they can be a top-20 program, I'm not thinking in terms of an at-large bid with the current healthy roster.

Getting an at-large is an immediate thing, and we've got major problems right now. We have to get quality W's in OOC play. Quality wins in conference play are unlikely.

We've got a walkon in the short rotation for back court minutes. Opponents can game plan to shut down Baker and drive on him at every opportunity. Draw fouls on Baker, with the tight rules, and we're toast. Tell Baker to back off on D to avoid fouls is almost as bad.

I'm not going to go into meltdown if the Shox lose some games or even if they don't make the NCAA tourney. I will still be a Shocker fan. There are some fans out here who won't be able to do or say the same.

I am surprised that you feel it necessary to write this post. From my perspective, it was not necessary.

I have learned something about you. We are about the same age.

I agree with you about Connor. In a perverse sorta way, he could end up being a hero. When I say perverse, I am referring to the situation that may provide an opportunity that would not be available, if Fred and Landry were not injured. (I hate the structure of the previous sentence, but...)

[_kai_]

How did we get on a comparison of Anton to our previous post players? Are people saying he's part of the early season woes? Cause I'm in a bizarro world if that's the case. Anton and Ron are really the only bright spots I've seen thus far. When I say bright spots, I mean, those two are the only ones who look like from Game 1 are ready to play this season.

Grady if you count only D-1 games (leave out Hawaii Pacific & Emporia State) he's averaging 15 points and 6 boards with the 2nd highest efficiency rating, 2nd to... Ron Baker. He also has the 2nd highest effective FG% on the team... 2nd to Ron Baker by 2 hundredths of a percentage point.

Apologies in advance if I've somehow misconstrued the discussion about Grady.

[Shocker1976]

I want to offer a different view of two opinions I've seen stated as facts. Anton Grady is too small, unathletic to play post. Even if I agreed with statement, who are we comparing him to? Karl Anthony Townes? Just look at the guys who've played center for the Shockers in the GM era.

Darius Carter - he was 6'7 with shoes and not exactly what I would call athletic or mobile. Grady looks quicker than Darius and he definitely has more post and and passing skills.

Chadrack Lufile/Kadeem Coleby - Ok, both of these guys are probably more athletic than Grady but neither was an OMG game changing athlete and, again, Grady has shown more basketball skills than either of them.

Carl Hall - Again, Carl Hall was probably 6'6 with shoes and dreads. Yes, he was a large, strong human being but wasn't much of a leaper himself. Carl's tenacity and physicality made up for his lack of endless post repertoire.

Garret Stutz/JT Durley - Stutz was certainly big. I liked JT a lot back in the day despite his insistence on roaming the perimeter.

All this is isn't to knock any of the past guys because they were all great and contributed in their own way. Is Grady perfect? No, but he's probably the most skilled post player we've had in a while. Height and athleticism are nice but I'd rather have a guy with a ton of basketball skills who is an average athlete and slightly undersized than the opposite.

The other thing is the idea of recruiting misses. Have their been some players that didn't work out? Sure. But we also had a kid who was forced to end his career before ever stepping on the court. Was that a miss? Rarely is he ever mentioned. Not only that but when was the last time we didn't have an above average point guard? Clevin, Ragland, Armstead, Fred...those hits have propelled the shockers to NIT championships, NCAA tourneys, and Final Fours. Fred might be the only "pure PG" (whatever that even means in today's basketball landscape) in that group. Add in Toure and Baker and I think Marshall has been fairly successful at handling combo guards.

Anyways, that's how I see it.

Thanks for expressing my thoughts so clearly and succinctly.

[vancedave56]

Not seeing enough "Play Angry" out of the guys yet (except Baker, Grady, Shamet). That needs to change for the team to have success. Defense, rebounding, attacking the basket...bring it!

[WSUwatcher]

Lots of silliness here about Anton Grady, and thanks to both pie and 1976 for being voices of sanity.

Grady was a great get -- a perfect free-agent signing, if you will, for a team trying to win this year. He's been a bright spot so far, and he's better than Darius Carter, which is not to disparage Darius, just to appreciate Grady.

Really, there's been a lot of similar panic ever since FVV got hurt, WSU lost on the road to a good team that was shooting well on a night when the Shocks' most indispensable player was considerably less than himself, and people got nervous. But if you look at last year's team vs. this year's...

Early season 2015 Wamukota > early season 2014 Wamukota

Early season 2015 Shaq > early season 2014 Shaq, notwithstanding the disappointment of those who hoped for more impact

Grady > Carter

2015 Kelly > 2014 Kelly

Hamilton > not having him while he finished up at Sunrise

2015 Baker > 2014 Baker

Early season 2015 Brown = or > early season 2014 Brown

Early season 2015 Wessel = early season 2014 Wessel (remember, last year Evan was still re-learning how to shoot for a while)

McDuffie > no Mc Duffie

Taylor > Holland or Henderson

The main problems are that FVV is out, which will be remedied in time, with the expectation that 2015 FVV will > 2014 FVV; Shamet is unable to help now that he's hurt (but he was an unknown although promising quantity anyway); and no one has stepped up to contribute what was lost when Cotton finished up at WSU -- that's the one big question mark: can someone offset the loss of Cotton, which was something we knew would be a challenge this year anyway, as did the pollsters who put WSU in their early top tens? On the other hand, Frankamp is coming, and should add an offensive dimension in terms of making life tough for opposing defenses that the Shocks haven't had in a long time.

Based on all that, we're supposed to believe the sky is falling? Does that come with an offer to buy the Brooklyn Bridge, or maybe some prime acreage for sale in the Everglades?