For Those Who Think I'm All Negative

[Aargh]

I've been a Shocker fan since Dave Stallworth was a So. If it wasn't for WSU basketball, I probably wouldn't have known WSU existed.

Through an odd set of circumstances, I was close to the program over an extended period of time. Those I knew ranged from Ron Mendell to Gus Santos. I played intramurals against Mendell when he was a grad student and I was a Fr. I couldn't guard him. He could guard me - and that's putting it in polite terms.

I was well enough known by the players and did well enough in pickup games that I got invited to play in pickup games by the team. You will never understand the pace at which the game is played and the pressure to get you out of position until you are on the court with those guys.

I'm still taking a "wait and see" stance on Frankamp. I've identified some recruiting misses by Marshall. I'm skeptical of the Shox being an at large team with VanVleet and Shamet out of the lineup.

We've got the Fr and So's to take care of that problem, but they haven't shown that in a game yet. Until the Fr and So's show that they can be a top-20 program, I'm not thinking in terms of an at-large bid with the current healthy roster.

Getting an at-large is an immediate thing, and we've got major problems right now. We have to get quality W's in OOC play. Quality wins in conference play are unlikely.

We've got a walkon in the short rotation for back court minutes. Opponents can game plan to shut down Baker and drive on him at every opportunity. Draw fouls on Baker, with the tight rules, and we're toast. Tell Baker to back off on D to avoid fouls is almost as bad.

I'm not going to go into meltdown if the Shox lose some games or even if they don't make the NCAA tourney. I will still be a Shocker fan. There are some fans out here who won't be able to do or say the same.

[Blackmag]

I think everybody has opinions of the team, players, coaches, rankings, ect, and thats what it is opinions. I like reading everyones posts, some I agree with, some I don't. Some people will point something out things that I haven't thought of or seen and I value that. I come on here to find out about recruits and anything that has to do with the Shockers. Been a big fan since the Bookend days and actually moved here as a wee lad when Stallworth was playing. Onething I think most of us on here want and thats for the best for this team, coaches, and winning and having a program we can be proud of. Its been a great ride and we know there will be ups and downs. We just need to get healthy and get the young ones up to speed.I agree the OOC games are very important and the injury bug hit us at a bad time, really anytime is but we have some big games on the big stage early and we as fans get geared up for these like the NCAA's. We just have to hope some of our returning youngsters play up to their potential and if they do, who knows. Still looking forward to the weekendand hoping for the best...

[shocks771]

I agree with all of your comments. I'm expecting Fred to be out of action until MVC play starts. I think that would be the smart move. If that's the case, combining that with the Shamet injury I don't see us being any better than 7-5 in our non-conference. If we are able to get to 7-5 in our non-con I think we can consider the non-con a success, however that likely won't be good enough for an at large unless we can go like 16-2 in the league.

[choida]

You guys worry too much...3G gets paid 3M to worry about these things...Baker Brown Wessel Kelly Grady...Taylor Morris Simon Hamilton McDuffie will figure things out...trust the system and process...Marshall will grind out a few and lose a few...the point is to get in the big dance and I think we still will

[AndShock]

jfc

[Blackmag]

I agree, 100%. Get Fred back, keep Ron healthy, Conner gives us anotheir dagger from the perimeter. The young guys, the switch turns on in their head and look out. Marshall has said this is the most raw talent he has had and he said monday night that the future is very bright, we might take a few hits early but he's excited about the future and so am I

[WSUwatcher]

I agree with all of your comments. I'm expecting Fred to be out of action until MVC play starts. I think that would be the smart move. If that's the case, combining that with the Shamet injury I don't see us being any better than 7-5 in our non-conference. If we are able to get to 7-5 in our non-con I think we can consider the non-con a success, however that likely won't be good enough for an at large unless we can go like 16-2 in the league.

If WSU is at full strength going into Valley play (and remember, at that point "full strength" includes Frankamp), I suspect that most, including the team itself, would consider going 16-2 in the conference a disappointment. They've lost one regular season league game (and one tournament game) in the last two years combined, after all.

Marshall has said that what he has right now -- his current roster of healthy players -- probably isn't a top 25 team; and although there may be some motivational gamesmanship going on there, the eye test says he's probably right. (Yes, you too, Aargh.) But once FVV, the Shocks' most indispensable player, returns and Frankamp comes on board, they'll be basically the same team that started the season in the top 10. (And yes, I know Shamet won't be there for quite a while, but he came into the season unproven, so he wasn't who had pollsters putting them up there; what we heard from the pundits preseason was a lot more about Frankamp than about Shamet.) So worrying about at-large possibilities at this point is more than a little premature.

I have indeed (to stay on topic for the thread) found Aargh to be unduly negative at times. But I'm not sure he's that much more negative, or at least skeptical, than JH4P is -- and yet our old buddy Jamar said recently (was it earlier today?) that he thinks WSU is still closer to a top-4 seed than to missing out altogether. So I'm with JH4P, and to quote another famous SN catchphrase, I'm not worried -- even if the seas are a little rough right now..

[wsushox1]

I was able to see Connor play every home game he played at KU. Bill Self's offense does not like a point guard who lacks elite athleticism. He doesn't run as many ball screens as Gregg does or run as many off balls screens for shooters as Gregg does. Frankamp was destined to struggle there.

I expect BIG things out of Connor at WSU.

[giskard]

Sometimes, you run into problems in life. Right now, FVV's injury has combined with some recruiting misses like you stated to put the team in a difficult position as you have correctly stated. You are a voice of reason cutting into some of the unrealistic enthusiasm for the team.

Unlike other posters, what you point out are things that are really there. I can think of quite a few posters that are negative without much substance to what they say.

Your last line about not going into meltdown mode is significant. The only way to be able to avoid melting down is to keep realistic about the team and what it is facing. Keep being a voice of reason. It will help the rest of us keep our heads about us while the Shocks work their way through these trying times.

[wufan]

@Aargh:, you are a skeptic. Nothing wrong with that and it adds good balance to the board. Taking a wait and see approach is the safe play. Three games in and two injuries later, why should someone be overly optimistic? We haven't played particularly well with the exception of Baker (forced to play out of position) and Grady (a little small and a little unathletic to play the post).

So what now? Well, in basketball past game performance is not nearly as strong of a predictor of future success as is talent and coaching. We've got both of those and it looks like we are going to have it in spades sometime in December. Hold on for the bumpy ride, and watch for it all to click. It will, and when it does, watch out! Until then, remain uncertain if that is your natural state. Don't melt down and don't predict a national championship. This is going to play out as a fun season, and we should all watch in unfold.

[ShockerEngineer]

@Aargh:, you are a skeptic. Nothing wrong with that and it adds good balance to the board. Taking a wait and see approach is the safe play. Three games in and two injuries later, why should someone be overly optimistic? We haven't played particularly well with the exception of Baker (forced to play out of position) and Grady (a little small and a little unathletic to play the post).

So what now? Well, in basketball past game performance is not nearly as strong of a predictor of future success as is talent and coaching. We've got both of those and it looks like we are going to have it in spades sometime in December. Hold on for the bumpy ride, and watch for it all to click. It will, and when it does, watch out! Until then, remain uncertain if that is your natural state. Don't melt down and don't predict a national championship. This is going to play out as a fun season, and we should all watch in unfold.

I pretty much agree with this. I saw some bad signs at the first exhibition game and had a bad feeling about Tulsa, but I've refused to be overly negative, because that definitely won't help anyone.

[Dan]

I also agree with with the post. The one variable that can save us from cratering in the non-conf is 3G and his ability to make lemonade out of lemons. We all know our bench has the talent to pull us through, they just don't have the experience. I'm hoping we an still pull out some good non-conf wins. If not, I'm confident we will have the ability to sweep the Valley and Conf Tourney and still be dangerous in March. Despite Fred and Ron, we are a young team. We have to patient this year and hold on with white knuckles.

[ShockerFever]

jfc

This.

I get what kind of team we are right now. I get how things are pretty gloomy right now and how Orlando will probably be a struggle.

But talking about missing the NCAA Tournament 3 games in? Good Lord, settle the **** down.

[Kochaddict]

Mr. Freeze says "Chill out"

[asiseeit]

It's early. The injuries are very disappointing. Underclassmen have not played to the level
most of you expected. I think another negative for our team in particular is the rule change
that limits contact. Our previous success and team character has been to play angry, swarm
our opponents defensively and make them uncomfortable offensively. I believe the rule
change, to date, has made us softer on D - - THAT has to change. The one thing the
underclassmen have is athleticism giving them all the potential to be good defensive players.
Most everyone looks at offense first and grades players on it first but I look at defense. Defense
is hard work and MUST be played by ALL five on the court at the same time. THIS is what I
will be looking for the next few games - playing angry on defense with a very high level of energy.
Nonstop D and no smiles on any faces until the games are well in hand.