Games of Interest (2015-16 Edition)

[ShockdaWorld]

It's time for Grayson Allen to get suspended, for multiple games. He's shown he'll cheap shot a defenseless player.

I don't see any difference between what he's done and the OSU kid.

I think you probably meant to put this on a different thread, but I couldn't agree more. He's proven himself to be a dirty player. I wonder if Coach K's moral compass will shut down in this case. I think the same thing about Niang though, cup checking that kid a couple nights ago.

[WuDrWu]

Thanks, @_kai_: if you could move my post above to games of interest I'd be very appreciative.

[WSUwatcher]

Someone should tell Arizona State the game started......Utah up 30-2 with 6 minutes left in the 1st half.......wow

Hmmm -- maybe that thrashing of Utah was a fairly good win after all.

I think Utah is probably better now than they were then, but I'm sure the Shocks are better, and I'm sticking with my story: that game was no fluke, or home-court artifact, or quirk of matchups; WSU is simply a better team than Utah is this year. And that's not to disparage Utah by any means; they're pretty good, and maybe even underrated as some posters seem to believe. But the Shocks are better, and if the Utes are underrated, imagine how underrated WSU is.

[_kai_]

Hmmm -- maybe that thrashing of Utah was a fairly good win after all.

I think Utah is probably better now than they were then, but I'm sure the Shocks are better, and I'm sticking with my story: that game was no fluke, or home-court artifact, or quirk of matchups; WSU is simply a better team than Utah is this year. And that's not to disparage Utah by any means; they're pretty good, and maybe even underrated as some posters seem to believe. But the Shocks are better, and if the Utes are underrated, imagine how underrated WSU is.

And that Shocker team that beat Utah is tremendously < the current Shocker team.

[Dave Stalwart]

And that Shocker team that beat Utah is tremendously < the current Shocker team.

Sounds like we would have led Arizona State 40-0 at halftime.

[Cdizzle]

It's time for Grayson Allen to get suspended, for multiple games. He's shown he'll cheap shot a defenseless player.

I don't see any difference between what he's done and the OSU kid.

He should've been suspended the first time. The kid is a punk.

I'm hopeful that at the very least he will quit getting such a friggin' favorable whistle.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

And that Shocker team that beat Utah is tremendously < the current Shocker team.

I disagree. That Shocker team vs Utah WAS the current Shocker team. They simply made an early appearance that game. They have merely managed to consistently become that team since.

I doubt WSU beats Utah any more soundly if they were to have a rematch. Even if adjusted for location (neutral site), I'd be thrilled with another win and would be very surprised to see WSU win again by anything close to 17.

[Kel Varnsen]

I think you probably meant to put this on a different thread, but I couldn't agree more. He's proven himself to be a dirty player. I wonder if Coach K's moral compass will shut down in this case. I think the same thing about Niang though, cup checking that kid a couple nights ago.

Don't be surprised if he doesn't discipline him.

http://deadspin.com/5893113/coach-k-is-a-dick

[pie n eye]

I disagree.

I'm shocked.

[_kai_]

I disagree. That Shocker team vs Utah WAS the current Shocker team. They simply made an early appearance that game. They have merely managed to consistently become that team since.

I doubt WSU beats Utah any more soundly if they were to have a rematch. Even if adjusted for location (neutral site), I'd be thrilled with another win and would be very surprised to see WSU win again by anything close to 17.

I really totally disagree with you lol. That was not the same team, it was early in the season. You're trying to tell me McDuffie, Shaq, Nurger, Kelly, VanVleet and Frankamp were all in the same form as they are now? That's laughable dude.

[proshox]

I really totally disagree with you lol. That was not the same team, it was early in the season. You're trying to tell me McDuffie, Shaq, Nurger, Kelly, VanVleet and Frankamp were all in the same form as they are now? That's laughable dude.

Kelly, McDuffie, Bush, VanVleet were all amazing in that game.... Others were very good. That was a great day.

I think that was Fred's first or second best game of the year...

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

I really totally disagree with you lol. That was not the same team, it was early in the season. You're trying to tell me McDuffie, Shaq, Nurger, Kelly, VanVleet and Frankamp were all in the same form as they are now? That's laughable dude.

Offense
WSU played a top 50 team a committed only 3 turnovers.
WSU scored 67 pts in a very low (59) possession game. That's 8 fewer possessions than WSU's average. Extremely efficient.
WSU had 15 assists, their 4th most all year, despite the low possession count.
Brown/McDuffie combined for 27pts, the most that tandem has scored in a game all year.
Freakin' Rauno Nurger had 2 rebounds, 0 TOs, and scored 4 pts on 2 for 2 shooting in 9 minutes.

Defense
WSU held Utah's future NBA 7 footer to just 11 pts on 5 FGAs and 6 FTA. He averages 18, 10, and 7.
WSU forced Utah's PG into 6 TOs. He averages 2.3
WSU had 7 steals and 3 blocked shots.

A 17 point win that day against one of the best teams the Shox have played all year is as impressive as any game they've played recently. For the month of December as a whole, WSU wasn't playing as well as they are now, but FOR THAT ONE DAY, they sure as heck were at the top of their game.

[Cdizzle]

Offense
WSU played a top 50 team a committed only 3 turnovers.
WSU scored 67 points in a very low (59) possession game. Extremely efficient.
WSU had 15 assists, their 4th most all year, despite the low possession count.
Brown/McDuffie combined for 27pts, the most that tandem has scored in a game all year.
Freakin' Rauno Nurger had 2 rebounds, 0 TOs, and scored 4 pts on 2 for 2 shooting in 9 minutes.

Defense
WSU held Utah's future NBA 7 footer to just 11 pts on 5 FGAs. He averages 18 pts on 10 FGAs.
WSU forced Utah's PG into 6 TOs. He averages 2.3
WSU had 7 steals and 3 blocked shots.

A 17 point win that day is as impressive as any game they've played all year. For the month of December as a whole, WSU wasn't playing as well as they are now, but FOR THAT ONE DAY, they sure as heck were at the top of their game.

I agree that WSU played well, particularly shooting the ball (though Utah contributed by playing a sagging zone that offered little to no resistance). However, I think the gigantic disparity in guard talent is being under-valued here. Utah's guards could barely get the ball within 30 feet of the basket much less initiate anything resembling an efficient offense. That hasn't changed.

Regarding Poeltl, his FGAs I think can be partially attributed to the guard pressure. However, I would also not discount how our big men have responded when playing 'lottery pick' centers this year. Also of note, Anton Grady did not play in that game, and wasn't available.

Edit: And, as well as Brown/McDuffie shot the ball, FVV/Baker/Wessel/Morris combined to go 10/32 from the field. While I might not count on Brown/McDuffie combining for 27 points again, I think it's more likely they would than the above 4 starters shooting that poorly again.

I would be happy with any win in a rematch, but would not be surprised by another WSU rout.

[_kai_]

Offense
WSU played a top 50 team a committed only 3 turnovers.
WSU scored 67 pts in a very low (59) possession game. That's 8 fewer possessions than WSU's average. Extremely efficient.
WSU had 15 assists, their 4th most all year, despite the low possession count.
Brown/McDuffie combined for 27pts, the most that tandem has scored in a game all year.
Freakin' Rauno Nurger had 2 rebounds, 0 TOs, and scored 4 pts on 2 for 2 shooting in 9 minutes.

Defense
WSU held Utah's future NBA 7 footer to just 11 pts on 5 FGAs and 6 FTA. He averages 18, 10, and 7.
WSU forced Utah's PG into 6 TOs. He averages 2.3
WSU had 7 steals and 3 blocked shots.

A 17 point win that day against one of the best teams the Shox have played all year is as impressive as any game they've played recently. For the month of December as a whole, WSU wasn't playing as well as they are now, but FOR THAT ONE DAY, they sure as heck were at the top of their game.

One game does not equal "form." For someone who argues all the time with people that they're arguing a different issue at hand than the topic, I said form. Form would need to be viewed over a stretch of games.

Regardless if someone thought this was the best single game the Shockers played it's still not a valid argument to talk about the team's form then, to the team's form now. That is a snapshot of one game, and I do not disagree with you that Utah was the best performance hands down the Shockers had in the early season, and maybe the whole season, but look at the individual stats of the players I listed for 5 or so games aorund Utah, to the last 4-5 games and tell me that those players were in the same form.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

And that Shocker team that beat Utah is tremendously < the current Shocker team.

For the month of December as a whole, WSU wasn't playing as well as they are now, but FOR THAT ONE DAY, they sure as heck were at the top of their game.

Utah was the best performance hands down the Shockers had in the early season, and maybe the whole season

@kai:
You think the Utah game was probably WSU's best performance of the year. So do I.
You think WSU is playing much better and more consistent overall right now than in December. So do I.
We seem to agree on both.

I'm just trying to understand your point. If you were arguing that WSU played mediocre basketball and still won by 17, that would be one thing. I do not understand the relevance of the other December games being mediocre if even you admit that for one day, WSU was at its best.

The best WSU team we've seen all year went out and beat Utah by 17. What's the point of bringing up the other poor performances if the Utah game wasn't one of them?