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**WuDrWu** · April 11, 2015, 05:21 PM

"You're welcome."

The entire WSU athletic department to the Valley.

**blackandgold** · April 11, 2015, 06:34 PM

If I were a administrator at WSU, I'd be pushing for a larger piece of the NCAA pie. Many conferences give a larger portion of the NCAA payout to the schools that actually participated in the tournament. It would give a incentive to the lower valley teams to actually put out a quality product.

**Good News** · April 11, 2015, 07:14 PM

Originally posted by Rlh04d View Post

I did this two years ago, but I wanted to see how updated numbers on NCAA Tournament shares for the Valley looked.

As a quick primer: NCAA tournament shares are paid out over a 6 year period, so this year every Valley team still earned money from UNI's 2010 Sweet 16 run. The share values change every year, generally by ~2%.

	2010	2011	2012	2013	2014	2015	Totals
Bradley	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Drake	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Evansville	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Illinois State	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Indiana State	0	1	0	0	0	0	1
Loyola	N/A	N/A	N/A	N/A	0	0	0
Missouri State	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Northern Iowa	3	0	0	0	0	2	5
Southern Illinois	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Wichita State	0	0	1	5	2	3	11
(Creighton)	0	0	2	2	N/A	N/A	4
Totals:	3	1	3	7	2	5	21

So the Valley did pretty well this year in general with the end of the one-share years coming off the books and being replaced by five shares. Overall, the conference receives 21 NCAA tournament shares, split 11 ways (10 teams + conference office). My understanding is that we keep the four shares Creighton contributed.

From a financial perspective, I'm fairly sure we get paid at a constant rate for that year's NCAA payout (meaning 2010 shares are paid out at the 2015 value), meaning the financial value to the conference breaks down like this:

	2010	2011	2012	2013	2014	2015	Value
Bradley	0	0	0	0	0	0	$0
Drake	0	0	0	0	0	0	$0
Evansville	0	0	0	0	0	0	$0
Illinois State	0	0	0	0	0	0	$0
Indiana State	0	$260,525	0	0	0	0	$260,525
Loyola	N/A	N/A	N/A	N/A	0	0	$0
Missouri State	0	0	0	0	0	0	$0
Northern Iowa	$781,575	0	0	0	0	$521,050	$1,302,625
Southern Illinois	0	0	0	0	0	0	$0
Wichita State	0	0	$260,525	$1,302,625	$521,050	$781,575	$2,865,775
Creighton	0	0	$521,050	$521,050	N/A	N/A	$1,042,100
	$781,575	$260,525	$781,575	$1,823,675	$521,050	$1,302,625

Payout							$5,471,025
Payout Per Team							$497,365.91

Since my last thread was kind of depressing, there is definitely good news here, in that this ties the best tournament shares in recent memory, and thus is obviously the highest per-school payouts given the increasing values of the shares:

2010

2011

2012

2013

2014

2015

Share Value

$222,206

$239,664

$242,204

$245,500

$250,106

$260,525

Shares

21

18

13

16

17

21

Payout

$4,666,326

$4,313,952

$3,148,652

$3,928,000

$4,251,802

$5,471,025

Payout Per Team

$424,211.45

$392,177.45

$286,241.09

$357,090.91

$386,527.45

$497,365.91

For anyone that wants a reason to hate most of this conference more, here's how those numbers break down:

	2005	2006	2007	2008	2009	2010	2011	2012	2013	2014	2015	Totals
Bradley	0	3	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	3
Drake	0	0	0	1	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	1
Evansville	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Illinois State	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Indiana State	0	0	0	0	0	0	1	0	0	0	0	1
Loyola	N/A	N/A	N/A	N/A	N/A	N/A	N/A	N/A	N/A	0	0	0
Missouri State	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Northern Iowa	1	1	0	0	1	3	0	0	0	0	2	8
Southern Illinois	2	1	3	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	9
Wichita State	0	3	0	0	0	0	0	1	5	2	3	14
Creighton	1	0	1	0	0	0	0	2	2	N/A	N/A	6
Totals:	4	8	4	1	1	3	1	3	7	2	5	39

So with every Valley school making ~$500k this year from NCAA tournament shares, I'm fairly sure we only have three Valley coaches making at least that much in salary. Sigh.

You among many others might find this really interesting. Best article I've ever read on NCAA tournament payouts:

http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/20...sketball-fund/

**RoyalShock** · April 11, 2015, 07:45 PM

The right way to do it would be to split it in such a way that the schools who contributed the units get extra shares.

For example, here is how I would do it using this year's performance:

First, split it 11 ways and give the conference it's 1 unit.
Take the remaining 10 and add 5 (UNI's 2 games and WSU's 3) = 15.
Split it 15 ways, giving UNI 3, WSU 4, and the remaining 8 schools each get 1.

**Rlh04d** · April 11, 2015, 08:38 PM

Originally posted by Good News View Post

You among many others might find this really interesting. Best article I've ever read on NCAA tournament payouts:

http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/20...sketball-fund/

Really appreciate you sharing that. That's so much more interesting than the annual cut-and-paste job Forbes puts out with updated numbers.

**60Shock** · April 11, 2015, 08:46 PM

Great job once again, Rlh04d.

**Rlh04d** · April 11, 2015, 08:47 PM

Originally posted by WuDrWu View Post

"You're welcome."

The entire WSU athletic department to the Valley.

You have to go back to 2007 to find a single active Valley school other than WSU and UNI who have contributed more than a single share to the Valley pot. Damn near a decade.

And over those nine seasons only WSU and UNI (and Creighton) have been a net positive in NCAA payouts.

IMO, there needs to be unbalanced revenue sharing, or WSU/UNI should have more influence in decision making related to basketball competitiveness, like rules for nonconference scheduling.

Meanwhile Indiana State probably pays less for all combined basketball salaries than they're getting from WSU's shares alone.

**ShockTalk** · April 11, 2015, 09:40 PM

Originally posted by RoyalShock View Post

The right way to do it would be to split it in such a way that the schools who contributed the units get extra shares.

For example, here is how I would do it using this year's performance:

First, split it 11 ways and give the conference it's 1 unit.
Take the remaining 10 and add 5 (UNI's 2 games and WSU's 3) = 15.
Split it 15 ways, giving UNI 3, WSU 4, and the remaining 8 schools each get 1.

This would never fly (not that anything other than "fair and even" would). Based on your units, WSU would get about $1,326,310, UNI $994,730, and each of the other teams $331,680 (x 8 = $$2,653,440) and not the $497,370 flat per team.

Maybe more tolerable would be to have a flat 2 extra units divided up by the % of units provided by a school during that 6 year period. WSU would get 52.4%, UNI 23.8%, IN St 4.8%, and Creighton's 4 units of 19% would be divided up among all 10 schools. In this situation, WSU would get about $864,540, UNI $627,510, IN St $470,010, and the other schools $430,220.

Feel free to check my math.:stupid:

**Speed** · April 11, 2015, 11:29 PM

In all other business, you make it you keep it. Not only does WSU get repeatedly punished by seeding due to league play, they keep producing in the post season & earning dividends for these losers.

**shock** · April 11, 2015, 11:42 PM

I wonder how many schools use that money to pay their coaching staff. It might be telling as far as realistic expectations go.

**rayc** · April 12, 2015, 12:30 AM

Actually I don't think it's an exact split among the 10 teams. The team that earned the money gets an extra share
of it's winnings. So it's a 12 way division of the funds.

For example this year WSU earned 3 units and UNI 2. Thus WSU would receive 2/12 of its
3 units plus 1/12 of UNI's 2 units for a total of 8/12 of a unit.

UNI would get 2/12 of its 2 units plus 1/12 of WSU's 3 units, a total of 7/12 unit.

All other schools and the league would receive 1/12 of the combined 5 units, or 5/12 of a unit each.

**wufan** · April 12, 2015, 08:07 AM

So, since each unit is worth 1.6 M, and the MVC got 5 units, that's 8 M total over 6 years. WSU gets just over 1 M, UNI gets ~ 900 K, and the rest of the Valley teams and league office gets about $600 K.

**pogo** · April 12, 2015, 08:26 AM

Originally posted by shock View Post

I wonder how many schools use that money to pay their coaching staff. It might be telling as far as realistic expectations go.

I would imagine its the same at most institutions. It all goes into a big general fund and expenses are paid out of it. Basketball probably makes the money and the other sports are funded from the general fund. The ncaa money just helps fund the other non revenue sports,

**Rlh04d** · April 12, 2015, 06:17 PM

Originally posted by rayc View Post

Actually I don't think it's an exact split among the 10 teams. The team that earned the money gets an extra share
of it's winnings. So it's a 12 way division of the funds.

For example this year WSU earned 3 units and UNI 2. Thus WSU would receive 2/12 of its
3 units plus 1/12 of UNI's 2 units for a total of 8/12 of a unit.

UNI would get 2/12 of its 2 units plus 1/12 of WSU's 3 units, a total of 7/12 unit.

All other schools and the league would receive 1/12 of the combined 5 units, or 5/12 of a unit each.

Any source for that? I've always understood the MVC's deal as an even split 11 ways.

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