Retire Tekele's Jersey

[chitown_shocker]

IF Tekele is worthy he is about 4-th-5th on the list.

Fred
Ron
Cle

These guys already meet all the criteria.

Tekele, Warren

Odd men out, but first guys in if the AA requirement is removed.

I know I keep repeating myself, but I am curious.

What order do you all see it? How is TC more qualified than Cle? Is it the two-year thing? If he played three like Cliff would it matter?

[Kung Wu]

Odd men out, but first guys in if the AA requirement is removed.

This is on Cotton's bio on goshockers.com: "Lefty Driesell Defensive All-America Team and finalist for its National Defensive Player of the Year award". So he HAS been selected to an AA team. But I'm not arguing with you, because I don't know which AA programs the decision makers will consider -- I'm just saying that he HAS received AA status in at least one respect. And they reference it on his bio on goshockers.com.

[_kai_]

I think they should rename Normal, Illinois airport from Central Illinois Regional Airport to Tekele Cotton Regional. Since he had so many sorties dunking on Redbirds over his career.

[SHOXAAC]

This is a contradiction. If he is not rafter worthy, what is he missing?

No, it isn't a contradiction. He isn't missing anything. He is a great defender and teammate in general. At times he can be a scorer. He is a solid rebounder. He is adequate at running the point. He can get to the rim. He generally makes solid decisions. He is a monster finisher. He is what he is supposed to be...an outstanding basketball player, so he is missing nothing. Is that so hard for you to understand? He will someday soon be in the HOF, but not the rafters.

[Kung Wu]

There is nothing he is missing. Just not rafter worthy. If we start anointing Cotton worthy, where will we stop.

Brown is out of the discussion -- for now.

FVV and Baker haven't graduated yet ... more work to do (but no doubt how they will end up).

So really it's down to Cotton, Early, and McBurney (dead serious). That's where I'd stop. It's not about emotion with me, it's about achievement. I believe Cotton has achieved it. I can't think of any other players that pass my four prong test at this point (I was too young to follow Warren's career to comment). So there's no slippery slope here. I think Tekele Cotton has achieved what very few will ever do at WSU, and is worthy of legendary status.

[SHOXAAC]

Brown is out of the discussion -- for now.

FVV and Baker haven't graduated yet ... more work to do (but no doubt how they will end up).

So really it's down to Cotton, Early, and McBurney (dead serious). That's where I'd stop. It's not about emotion with me, it's about achievement. I believe Cotton has achieved it. I can't think of any other players that pass my four prong test at this point (I was too young to follow Warren's career to comment). So there's no slippery slope here. I think Tekele Cotton has achieved what very few will ever do at WSU, and is worthy of legendary status.

It all,depends on what the "rafters" mean to a program. To me, it means "legend" status. Players who take over games on a consistent basis on both ends of the floor. For me, Cotton doesn't fit the model. Yes, he has taken over parts of games here and there, but not that super star player. If Cotton gets up there, the rafters become more of a ring of honor.

[Kung Wu]

It all,depends on what the "rafters" mean to a program. To me, it means "legend" status. Players who take over games on a consistent basis on both ends of the floor. For me, Cotton doesn't fit the model. Yes, he has taken over parts of games here and there, but not that super star player. If Cotton gets up there, the rafters become more of a ring of honor.

Okay then, how about a sweet bronze statuette sitting on a pedestal out in the foyer. Not a gargantuan polished brass one with a permanent security guard assigned to it, like Marshall will get some day, but a simple yet elegant two foot antiqued masterpiece? Complete with a sign below that reads:

Tekele ... SPONSORED BY THE FOLKS AT ASHLEY FURNITURE ... Cotton 2012-2015

[SHOXAAC]

Okay then, how about a sweet bronze statuette sitting on a pedestal out in the foyer. Not a gargantuan polished brass one with a permanent security guard assigned to it, like Marshall will get some day, but a simple yet elegant two foot antiqued masterpiece? Complete with a sign below that reads:

Tekele ... SPONSORED BY THE FOLKS AT ASHLEY FURNITURE ... Cotton 2012-2015

You are too funny my friend.

Tell you what...I will discuss this topic directly with TC at Easter dinner in two weeks, for the third consecutive year (unless his Easter is spent in Indy).

[Kung Wu]

You are too funny my friend.

Tell you what...I will discuss this topic directly with TC at Easter dinner in two weeks, for the third consecutive year (unless his Easter is spent in Indy).

Okay, and then tell him you said he can't be in the rafters, even though he just won us the National Championship. :)

[chitown_shocker]

It get so difficult when you get down to it, without having objective metrics.

I wouldn't count a defensive AA as it is half-an AA award of sorts.

It took Cliff a bit because he left early and his AA wasn't considered as prestigious (I amy be incorrect. If so slap my hand.)

Cle may miss out because he was a 2 year guy (But that would be a travesty).

FVV, and RB are shoo-ins.

all that said:

Tekele is a SHOCKER LEGEND and will never be forgotten. Its still quite an honor to be considered one of the guys who MAYBE should get his number placed up there.

I am just thankful I get to see him play at least one more game.

[SHOXAAC]

Okay, and then tell him you said he can't be in the rafters, even though he just won us the National Championship. :)

Are you drunk?!?!

I'm brave on a fan board...I will run like a sissy from that direct question.

[Play Angry]

Has it ever been publicly stated that AA is actually a "requirement"? I know people repeat it on here as if it's set in stone, but Cliff's was frankly a joke (Basketball Times back then was less widely circulated than Athlon is now) and Cleo was only an Honorable Mention as a senior (same honor received by Paul Miller and a bizillion other players each year).

Throw in the fact that Ross McBurney, one of four consensus AAs to ever play here, never had his jersey retired and you have some seriously selective bullshittery for criteria.

[1972Shocker]

Ron Baker still needs to receive post-season All America accolades.

According to the Basketball Fact Book (page 72) the 3 players coming into this season who have received AA accolades but who have not had their numbers retired are:

Paul Miller (2006) - Honorable Mention - Associated Press

Cleanthony Early (2014):
2nd Team - Consensus, NABC, USBWA
3rd Team - Associated Press

Fred Van Vleet (2014):
3rd Team - NABC, Sporting News

I am not sure why Ross McBurney is not listed as a Shocker All-American.

Of the 5 guys currently in the rafters only Cleo and Dave were All Americans in two different years. Fred will likely be the next to match that. The only honor listed for Cliff was Honorable Mention by the Associated Press. However, I know he received 3rd Team AA honors by Basketball Times. Whether that indicates that organization is too obscure to count I don't know.

Although I think @KungWu makes a compelling case for Tekele I thing I agree with @SHOXMVC that there needs to be some way of separating the truly elite from the very good. At this point that appears to be AA status. Is Honorable Mention good enough. I don't know for sure but maybe. Cliff's listing makes it hard to know.

If we did bestow that honor on Tekele then we probably have about 8 to 10 other members of the Shocker Hall of Fame including Kelly Pete, Jamie Thompson, Warren Armstrong, Cheese Johnson, Aubrey Sherrod, Ernie Moore, Jason Perez and maybe Greg Carney and Terry Benton. Personally, I think that would dilute the honor to the point of losing it's true value.

The question of whether Honorable Mention AA accolades are good enough to have your number retired is also important in considering this honor for another Shocker senior, that being Alex Harden. I doubt Alex will make the top 3 women's AA teams but she could and should at least be an Honorable Mention selection. If Honorable Mention is good enough then Alex probably should have her number selected. Honorable Mention puts you roughly in the top 50 players in the country.

[HockeyShock]

Tekele Cotton is the best defender I have ever seen.

He is the only Shocker to go to four NCAA tournaments (so far).

He is a TWO-time MVC Defensive Player of the Year.

He has more SC Top Ten appearances than most Burger Boys playing.

He is one of the most electric players I have ever seen in a Shocker uniform, and I really don't need the Associated Press or anybody else to tell me how important this guy is to the program. My vote is to hang that jersey.

[Kung Wu]

Are you drunk?!?!

I'm brave on a fan board...I will run like a sissy from that direct question.

If I can't get a statuette in the foyer, I'm definitely pushing for engraved pewter medallions. Only $19.95 at the bookstore, 20% off if the Shox score more than 70 points in a game!