Official Selection Show Thread

[Rlh04d]

lol, my bad...I'll apologize in person at Coke Arena ;-)

for your reading pleasure:

http://csnbbs.com/thread-731036.html

It's pretty funny seeing how much the arrogance of AAC fans has changed in such a short time. Not very long ago that AAC fans were buoyed by the success of UConn and Louisville into thinking AAC was a long-term power in college basketball, and they didn't need to deal with those troublesome basketball-only schools, who killed the Big East by continuously joining the ACC or something >=)

Ultimately the AAC, and Big East before it, are reactionary. They are almost never proactive. And so while I would LOVE for WSU to join the AAC right now ... it would not surprise me at all for the AAC to hold off for a few years, wait until UConn and Cinci bolt, and then realize their basketball conference has fallen out of the top ten and try to overcompensate by chasing WSU, VCU, and other regularly successful teams. And at that point the AAC might not be an improvement.

Personally, I'd add three to five basketball-only schools and create a 14 or 16 team basketball conference, with WSU, VCU, Dayton, and maybe Saint Louis, George Washington, Davidson, etc. Maximize the value of basketball revenue, ride it to a strong TV contract and maximized NCAA shares, while simultaneously weakening the MVC, A10, and Big East (who will inevitably poach Dayton/SLU if the AAC doesn't first), all of the AAC's theoretical rivals at this point. Ride that strength to a gradual strengthening of the football side. But that kind of thinking would drive AAC fans crazy.

Don't get me wrong, I would do whatever I could to get WSU in the AAC right now. But the difference between that thread and every other thread I've seen on WSU joining the AAC over the last three years is hilariously large. We haven't changed at all, other than continuing to do what we've been doing -- the difference is that now AAC fans on there legitimately don't think they can poach teams from the A10. Proactively move from a position of strength, don't react by moving from a position of weakness. Unfortunately some people can't look logically at the future until they're in a position of weakness.

[Anthroshock]

Personally, I'd add five basketball-only schools and create a 16 team basketball conference with WSU, VCU, Dayton, Saint Louis

I hate, hate, hate, unbalanced conference schedules. The Big XII drivel this year of "One True Champion" made me want to puke. Sure, they invented a true round-robin schedule.

[Rlh04d]

I hate, hate, hate, unbalanced conference schedules. The Big XII drivel this year of "One True Champion" made me want to puke. Sure, they invented a true round-robin schedule.

I hate it as well. My thought process isn't on what would be the most enjoyable to watch, or the most fair, though, it's just on what would make the conference the most money and the most relevant, while simultaneously weakening its competition.

Personally, as much as I would like to join the AAC, I've said from the beginning that I'd be happy with the A-10 as well. I wonder how other people on here feel with the A-10 currently being better than the AAC.

[Cdizzle]

I hate, hate, hate, unbalanced conference schedules. The Big XII drivel this year of "One True Champion" made me want to puke. Sure, they invented a true round-robin schedule.

It's OK. They used the same mantra for their Fball schedule, but then went ahead and had a shared championship anyway. It's really "One True Champion*"


*unless it would be beneficial to our conference on the national scale to declare multiple champions

[UofMemphis]

It's pretty funny seeing how much the arrogance of AAC fans has changed in such a short time.I disagree as the AAC is made up of many fan bases. UConn and Cincy fans don't want to be here, and are pizzed that they are stuck...but they ARE stuck, which is great for the rest of us...so if those specific fan bases are what you're talking about...I would just say they represent themselves, not all of the AAC Not very long ago that AAC fans were buoyed by the success of UConn and Louisville into thinking AAC was a long-term power in college basketball, and they didn't need to deal with those troublesome basketball-only schools, who killed the Big East by continuously joining the ACC or something >=) and most UConn and Cincy fans still feel that way, but the other voices are drowning them out..

Ultimately the AAC, and Big East before it, are reactionary.all conferences are They are almost never proactive. so lets change that And so while I would LOVE for WSU to join the AAC right now ... it would not surprise me at all for the AAC to hold off for a few years, wait until UConn and Cinci boltUConn missed the train...if anyone leaves, it will we be 2 schools like Cincy, UCF, or Memphis...FOOTBALL drives the realignment bus, and then realize their basketball conference has fallen out of the top ten and try to overcompensate by chasing WSU, VCU, and other regularly successful teams. And at that point the AAC might not be an improvement.I still pick the AAC, but I'm not a fan of the MVC.

Personally, I'd add five basketball-only schools and create a 16 team basketball conference with WSU, VCU, Dayton, Saint Louis maybe, no...1 non-basketball member isn't dangerous, and doesn't represent a voting bloc...5, and you have the AAC - C7 break up all over again...

Don't get me wrong, I would do whatever I could to get WSU in the AAC right now. But the difference between that thread and every other thread I've seen on WSU joining the AAC over the last three years is hilariously large. We haven't changed at all -- the difference is that now AAC fans on there legitimately don't think they can poach teams from the A10. Then I would suggest you look into my posting history...I've been on the WSU to the AAC train since before last years NCAA tourney (yep, even when we still had Louisville)

see the above bolded.

[Rlh04d]

see the above bolded.

Are you disagreeing that AAC fans have arrogantly dismissed the idea of WSU joining since the conference formed? I can easily post a dozen links ;)

All conferences aren't reactionary, at all. The conferences that are reactionary are the ones that are progressively shrinking: which includes both the AAC/Big East and the Big 12. The Big 10 and the SEC in particular have been very proactive about their conferences, and have seen massive revenue spikes to reward that proactive nature. Both conferences have taken the long view of college athletics as a business and have expanded with new markets and new business models that have benefited them greatly.

As an ACC fan, you're incorrect. The only reason UConn is still in the AAC is that Notre Dame is hanging on to independence. If ND ever chooses to join the ACC fully, UConn will be in the ACC that same day. They're not going to have 15 football teams, though. Football drives the bus, but so does market expansion and, particularly in the ACC/Big 10/Pac-12, so does academics. You're right that Cincy/UCF/Memphis are all more likely to move, though, because the Big 12 is more likely to expand than Notre Dame is to give up independence. But the ACC would choose UConn over any of those other schools every time. Trust me, the AAC schools will never even consider Memphis or UCF, and Cinci would be a long-shot. Most of the ACC schools are still smarting about having to add FSU, and we were glorious in football at the time, and have a far higher academic ranking than Cinci. Never underestimate the irrational focus on basketball or the academic arrogance of the ACC. I still don't think Louisville would have been added if it wasn't for FSU flirting with leaving, just because of their academics.

Bringing up "the AAC-C7 breakup all over again" is just continuing to reiterate that AAC fans don't understand what caused the breakup. You broke up because the entire Big East became seven basketball schools, UConn, and a bunch of Conference USA teams -- and UConn was openly begging for an ACC invite. That's not a "voting bloc of basketball schools" issue, it's an issue that football so destabilized the conference that a breakup was the only way to salvage the Big East's TV contract potential. Adding Conference USA teams eradicated the Big East's value, to the point where it was FAR more profitable to split than to remain. And until AAC fans realize this all of your discussions are clouded in irrationality. Money broke up the conference. Both the money that caused the ACC to poach the Big East teams over and over again and then money that the basketball schools knew they could get on their own and knew that they would not get if they had to share it with the Conference USA football division.

The Big East was a basketball conference. It was the football schools that were a voting bloc that destroyed the conference, first by defecting over and over again, and then by adding pretty much everyone that's in the AAC now as a continuous watering down of the football product into contract irrelevancy.

And I definitely wasn't talking about YOUR arrogance ... I know you've been wanting WSU to join the AAC for several years now. I was strictly referring to the number of threads I've read on that forum that very arrogantly dismissed us, over and over again, as a potential add. It's only now that the A-10 could realistically be just as good of a destination for us that AAC fans have come around to wanting us.

[Shocker-maniac]

I hate it as well. My thought process isn't on what would be the most enjoyable to watch, or the most fair, though, it's just on what would make the conference the most money and the most relevant, while simultaneously weakening its competition.

Personally, as much as I would like to join the AAC, I've said from the beginning that I'd be happy with the A-10 as well. I wonder how other people on here feel with the A-10 currently being better than the AAC.

I think from a non-geography standpoint that the A10 is a better fit. I have always been uneasy about being a basketball only member in a football conference because football will always drive the bus. However, from a national TV exposure the AAC or even the MVC are better than the A10 I think. National TV exposure is very important. When you factor in geography, WSU is an outlier in the current A10 footprint.

[Rlh04d]

I think from a non-geography standpoint that the A10 is a better fit. I have always been uneasy about being a basketball only member in a football conference because football will always drive the bus. However, from a national TV exposure the AAC or even the MVC are better than the A10 I think. National TV exposure is very important. When you factor in geography, WSU is an outlier in the current A10 footprint.

I agree. Although TV exposure changes. I realistically believe that WSU could increase the value of a TV contract for either the A10 or the AAC at this point, and while ESPN already has WSU for peanuts with this current MVC deal, realistically it would probably be more beneficial to ESPN if they could advertise WSU against the top teams from the AAC or A10 than MVC opponents. Basically, they're going to be showing us either way, but our games would be getting better ratings against bigger programs with more likely future success and bigger fanbases than Valley opponents.

At this point they only show us on TV a few times during conference season, and usually on ESPNU. Put us in a bigger conference and we would be on ESPN's channels far more often during the season, with higher ratings, which would make ESPN much more money from us than putting us on ESPN3.

[UofMemphis]

Are you disagreeing that AAC fans have arrogantly dismissed the idea of WSU joining since the conference formed? I said no one poster represents AAC fans, if you wish to have some victim mentality, go for it, I really don't care. I can easily post a dozen links ;) my eyes work fine, thanks.

All conferences aren't reactionary, at all. you're correct, I should have said all non P5 conference are reactionary, and that's because they really don't have any other option The conferences that are reactionary are the ones that are progressively shrinking: which includes both the AAC/Big East and the Big 12. The Big 10 and the SEC in particular have been very proactive about their conferences, and have seen massive revenue spikes to reward that proactive nature. Both conferences have taken the long view of college athletics as a business and have expanded with new markets and new business models that have benefited them greatly. show me one proactive, successful G5 conference

As an ACC fan, another P5 you're incorrect. I agree, I have since better articulated my opinion The only reason UConn is still in the AAC is that Notre Dame is hanging on to independence. if by "hanging on" you mean, something they will never give up as long as they exist...I would agtree If ND ever chooses to join the ACC fully, UConn will be in the ACC that same day. and if the sun ever stops shining, we'll all be dead that day They're not going to have 15 football teams, though. Football drives the bus it always has, but so does market expansion and, particularly in the ACC/Big 10/Pac-12, so does academics. You're right that Cincy/UCF/Memphis are all more likely to move, though, because the Big 12 is more likely to expand than Notre Dame is to give up independence. But the ACC would choose UConn over any of those other schools every time. Trust me, the AAC schools will never even consider Memphis or UCF, and Cinci would be a long-shot. Most of the ACC schools are still smarting about having to add FSU, and we were glorious in football at the time, and have a far higher academic ranking than Cinci. Never underestimate the irrational focus on basketball or the academic arrogance of the ACC. ND won't give up independence...

Bringing up "the AAC-C7 breakup all over again" is just continuing to reiterate that AAC fans don't understand what caused the breakup. I understand fine, I also understand that our conference leaders will never, and I mean NEVER, allow that to happen again...I believe a single team to round out the conference could fly right now in a climate of panic...5? yeah, that's not gonna happen You broke up I haven't broken up with anyone...I'm a fan...not a conf commish. because the entire Big East became seven basketball schools (with completely different agendas than the football members), UConn, and a bunch of Conference USA teams. oh, how I miss CUSA 1.0 That's not a "voting bloc of basketball schools" issue, it's an issue that football basketball so destabilized the conference that a breakup was the only way to salvage the Big East's TV contract potential. for the catholic basketball schools to get their way Adding Conference USA teams eradicated the Big East's value Bull ****, the two conferences are worth more together than appart. to the point where it was FAR more profitable to split than to remain. again, Bull ****, the two conferences are worth more together than appart. And until AAC fans realize this all of your discussions are clouded in irrationality. maybe in your opinion, not mine.

And I definitely wasn't talking about YOUR arrogance... I know you've been wanting WSU to join the AAC for several years now. I was strictly referring to the number of threads I've read on that forum that very arrogantly dismissed us, over and over again, as a potential add. so here's a novel idea...if you have a problem with the arrogance, join the conference and prove it on the court, sunshine ;-) It's only now that the A-10 could realistically be just as good of a destination for us that AAC fans have come around to wanting us. don't kid yourself, most of those same fans think we could have VCU, Dayton, Richmond, etc to go along with WSU

JMHO.

[Rlh04d]

JMHO.

There's no victim mentality. I'm just laughing at the change from arrogant dismissal to widespread recognition of need. We didn't change, the conference's fans were simply humbled. That's an entertaining victory for us. I don't need to suck up to AAC fans as if they have any power over whether we join or not, so I'm more than happy to laugh at how quickly the majority have changed their opinion.

One proactive, successful non-P5 conference? The Big East. At least monetarily at this time. Every team in that conference makes about as much from their TV contract as if you took one team from every other non-P5 conference in the country and added all of their TV revenue together. They proactively abandoned you and made a killing for it. They were making $1.3 million a team in the previous contract, saw a contract losing value with the addition of every Conference USA team that was being added, defected, took their name with them, and made nearly 4x a team in contract revenue by doing so. It was a brilliant proactive move.

Football has not always driven the bus. Basketball drove the bus until twenty years ago, and football very likely might not drive the bus in another twenty years.

And ND has already partly given up independence -- no one thought they would go that far, either. Certainly not the Big East, who never got CLOSE to the deal from ND that the ACC has gotten. Take a look at Notre Dame's football schedule next year: @ Virginia, vs Georgia Tech, @ Clemson, @ Pittsburgh, vs Wake Forest, vs Boston College. That's six ACC opponents next year. They are two more opponents away from being a full member of the ACC. You're misunderstanding the ACC's desperation if you don't think the ACC will allow ND to remain on NBC as a full-member. Hell, the ACC might be so desperate that they would let ND participate in the ACC title game with only a six-game conference season. ND's already shown a willingness to schedule six ACC games in one season, and the B12's experience this year shows how easily a team without a conference title game to balance their resume can be left out of the playoffs. ND has a clear motivation to get access to the ACC title game, and the ACC has a clear motivation to give ND whatever concession they have to.

So you truly believe that every team in the combined C7/AAC Big East would be making more than $4 million a year? You are incorrect. The overall TV contract might have been larger but the per-team payout would have been FAR less, because the teams that were added from Conference USA did not have enough value on their own. And of course it's not in your opinion; we've already established that you're irrational on this topic :) Just repeating "bull ****" doesn't make it any less true.

I haven't broken up with anyone...I'm a fan...not a conf commish.......

so here's a novel idea...if you have a problem with the arrogance, join the conference and prove it on the court, sunshine ;-) I

I can't prove anything on the court. I'm a fan, not a basketball program, sunshine ;)

[UofMemphis]

There's no victim mentality. you say that, then write 3 miles worth of text saying differently I'm just laughing at the change from arrogant dismissal to widespread recognition of need. that's the victim mentality, and guess what? the Cincy and UConn fans didn't want you before, and they don't want you now...but 2 voices can't drown out the other 10 We didn't change, either did we, there is no offer on the table...you have not been invited...I simply feel exactly the same way I did a year ago. the conference's fans were simply humbled. That's an entertaining victory for us. lol, if you say so... I don't need to suck up to AAC fans please quote where I said you did...I'll wait as if they have any power over whether we join or not, so I'm more than happy to laugh at how quickly the majority have changed their opinion. I question your use of the word Majority, and would ask you to show me anything saying the AAC is considering adding members

One proactive, successful non-P5 conference? The Big East. wow, did you just use a football term to describe a basketball conference? but we're the ones confused? that's special, right there... At least monetarily at this time. Every team in that conference makes about as much from their TV contract as if you took one team from every other non-P5 conference in the country and added all of their TV revenue together. They proactively abandoned you and made a killing for it. that may be the most ridiculous thing I've ever read (see below)

Football has not always driven the bus. OK, you're a lunatic Basketball drove the bus until twenty years ago, and football very likely might not drive the bus in another twenty years.

And ND has already partly given up independence -- no one thought they would go that far, either. Certainly not the Big East, who never got CLOSE to the deal from ND that the ACC has gotten. why do think I give a crap? Take a look at Notre Dame's football schedule next year: No, that's OK...I really don't care... @ Virginia, vs Georgia Tech, @ Clemson, @ Pittsburgh, vs Wake Forest, vs Boston College. That's six ACC opponents next year. that's nice. They are two more opponents away from being a full member of the ACC. and when they get those games, you come let me know...until then...not a single f%#$ was given You're misunderstanding no, I just don't care the ACC's desperation if you don't think the ACC will allow ND to remain on NBC as a full-member. Hell, the ACC might be so desperate that they would let ND participate in the ACC title game with only a six-game conference season. and I'm sure you actually believe all that ND's already shown a willingness to schedule six ACC games in one season, again, don't care and the B12's experience this year shows how easily a team without a conference title game to balance their resume can be left out of the playoffs. again, don't care

So you truly believe that every team in the combined C7/AAC Big East would be making more than $4 million a year? You are incorrect. prove it The overall TV contract might have been larger but the per-team payout would have been FAR less prove it, because the teams that were added from Conference USA did not have enough value on their own. you have no idea what each program is valued. And of course it's not in your opinion; we've already established that you're irrational on this topic :) lol, WSU...nice of you to send to neighborhood d-bag out to play


I can't prove anything on the court. I'm a fan, not a basketball program. then perhaps you should stop discussing my breakups and arrogance, sunshine?

or, as we say at Sun Studios:


:smile-new:

[UofMemphis]

for my friend...

College Basketball ratings

Saturday
1.55 rating CBS 1:00 pm Big Ten Semifinal: Purdue vs #6-Wisconsin
1.90 rating CBS 3:30 pm Big Ten Semifinal: Michigan State vs #8-Maryland
1.20 rating CBS 6:00 pm Mountain West Championship: Wyoming vs San Diego State
1.55 rating ESPN 1:00 pm SEC Semifinal: Auburn vs #1-Kentucky
0.94 rating ESPN 3:00 pm SEC Semifinal: Georgia vs #21-Arkansas
1.59 rating ESPN 6:00 pm Big 12 Championship: #13-Iowa State vs #9-Kansas
2.31 rating ESPN 8:30 pm ACC Championship: #19-North Carolina vs #11-Notre Dame
1.13 rating ESPN 11:00 pm PAC-12 Championship: Oregon vs #5-Arizona
0.28 rating FS1 8:00 pm Big East Championship: Xavier vs #4-Villanova

Sunday
1.20 rating CBS 1:00 pm Atlantic 10 Championship: VCU vs Dayton
2.63 rating CBS 3:30 pm Big Ten Championship: Michigan State vs #6-Wisconsin
1.95 rating ESPN 1:00 pm SEC Championship: #21-Arkansas vs #1-Kentucky
1.25 rating ESPN 3:15 pm AAC Championship: UConn vs #20-SMU

3.86 rating CBS 6:00 NCAA Tournament Selection Show

[Rlh04d]

would ask you to show me anything saying the AAC is considering adding members

"please quote where I said you did...I'll wait"

I have specifically used the words fan over and over again, for a reason. I've never claimed a word about whether the AAC will change or not; one year ago and every thread about WSU joining the AAC on that forum was arrogant dismissal, and today every thread is a clear desire for WSU to join. That's the change of a majority of fans. Never once said a word about whether the AAC as a conference wanted us at this point. The fans on THAT forum clearly do. Your lack of reading comprehension is fun.

wow, did you just use a football term to describe a basketball conference? but we're the ones confused? that's special, right there...

I didn't use any term to describe "a basketball conference." I used a term that the Big East was not a part of. Not to mention that BCS is a football term, P5 is not. It's a clear reference to the five conferences that make by FAR more money than the next closest conference.

And did you just refer to yourself as a plural? "We" ? Yes, you're confused. In many ways.

Tell me some more about how "football drove the bus" in the 1980s and 90s.

And I have complete confidence in how much each of your Conference USA teams were worth. As did the C7 teams. Your CUSA conference was very clearly not worth much of anything, and it's why you as fans are still SO angry about being left at the altar by the C7. You joined the "Big East" but didn't get a fraction of the revenue you wanted ... and yet they got all of the revenue THEY wanted. Because their product was worth considerable money and yours was not.

Now tell me how much you don't care anymore while responding to each of my posts and clearly getting more and more angry that you can't "win," "sunshine".

[kochHead]

for my friend...

College Basketball ratings

Saturday
1.55 rating CBS 1:00 pm Big Ten Semifinal: Purdue vs #6-Wisconsin
1.90 rating CBS 3:30 pm Big Ten Semifinal: Michigan State vs #8-Maryland
1.20 rating CBS 6:00 pm Mountain West Championship: Wyoming vs San Diego State
1.55 rating ESPN 1:00 pm SEC Semifinal: Auburn vs #1-Kentucky
0.94 rating ESPN 3:00 pm SEC Semifinal: Georgia vs #21-Arkansas
1.59 rating ESPN 6:00 pm Big 12 Championship: #13-Iowa State vs #9-Kansas
2.31 rating ESPN 8:30 pm ACC Championship: #19-North Carolina vs #11-Notre Dame
1.13 rating ESPN 11:00 pm PAC-12 Championship: Oregon vs #5-Arizona
0.28 rating FS1 8:00 pm Big East Championship: Xavier vs #4-Villanova

Sunday
1.20 rating CBS 1:00 pm Atlantic 10 Championship: VCU vs Dayton
2.63 rating CBS 3:30 pm Big Ten Championship: Michigan State vs #6-Wisconsin
1.95 rating ESPN 1:00 pm SEC Championship: #21-Arkansas vs #1-Kentucky
1.25 rating ESPN 3:15 pm AAC Championship: UConn vs #20-SMU

3.86 rating CBS 6:00 NCAA Tournament Selection Show

What is this FS1 channel?

Floundering Station 1?
Future Static 1?
Frequently Skipped 1?

[SHOCKvalue]

Why are we piling on the Memphis guy? He's always been a respectable poster on SN, and is a cheerleader for WSU on the AAC forum. Seems okay in my book.