A brief look ahead as we await the MVC tournament

[jocoshock]

Exactly what?

You feel good about next year with SM as your starting low post and Bush as your top guy off the bench?
Yea, right.

Bush has progressed little since October and if you think HCGM and his guys have a warm and fuzzy with the prospect of him playing 15-20/game next year, I've got a whole bunch of land in NW KS to sell you.

SM has shown glimpses of ability but he also hasn't figured out how to stay on the floor 20/game due to conditioning and fouling.

I guess since Bush scores 4 points in a game and doesn't foul out in 5 minutes that now makes him the second coming of Carl Hall.
Alrighty.

Trust me, recruiting is ongoing as I type.

That is all.

Name one big in the Marshall era that was a major impact player in year one. The answer is no one. Carl came the closest and even he had an adjustment period.

Bush will be a project next year as well, but no less than Kadeem Coleby. Chadrack was a big question mark after his first year. Garrett took 3 years. EO became a monster shot blocker that never could hit the broad side of a barn, provided he could catch the balk at all. If all Bush does is take up space, stay out of foul trouble, play defense like he did Saturday, and get a reasonable number of rebounds, he will have been every bit as good as Kadeem and EO, and close to what Chadrack was.

We have zero guarantees that we will do better with a new guy that has one year less experience. Shaq and Rauno are very skilled players who have tons of upside. Bush showed improvement. Tell me who we can get that will come in day one and outperform guys with a year of experience under their belt. I am all ears.

We both know recruiting never, ever stops at WSU. And that is ALL that WE know.

[jdshock]

Name one big in the Marshall era that was a major impact player in year one. The answer is no one. Carl came the closest and even he had an adjustment period.

Bush will be a project next year as well, but no less than Kadeem Coleby. Chadrack was a big question mark after his first year. Garrett took 3 years. EO became a monster shot blocker that never could hit the broad side of a barn, provided he could catch the balk at all. If all Bush does is take up space, stay out of foul trouble, play defense like he did Saturday, and get a reasonable number of rebounds, he will have been every bit as good as Kadeem and EO, and close to what Chadrack was.

We have zero guarantees that we will do better with a new guy that has one year less experience. Shaq and Rauno are very skilled players who have tons of upside. Bush showed improvement. Tell me who we can get that will come in day one and outperform guys with a year of experience under their belt. I am all ears.

We both know recruiting never, ever stops at WSU. And that is ALL that WE know.

I would agree with almost all of this.

And I would add that there aren't many 18 year old 4's and 5's who are ready to play day one PERIOD and there aren't many juco transfers who play the 4 and 5 spots who are ready to play day one PERIOD. The reason there has never been one at WSU is because there just aren't many in the world.

[pie n eye]

Name one big in the Marshall era that was a major impact player in year one. The answer is no one. Carl came the closest and even he had an adjustment period.

Bush will be a project next year as well, but no less than Kadeem Coleby. Chadrack was a big question mark after his first year. Garrett took 3 years. EO became a monster shot blocker that never could hit the broad side of a barn, provided he could catch the balk at all. If all Bush does is take up space, stay out of foul trouble, play defense like he did Saturday, and get a reasonable number of rebounds, he will have been every bit as good as Kadeem and EO, and close to what Chadrack was.

We have zero guarantees that we will do better with a new guy that has one year less experience. Shaq and Rauno are very skilled players who have tons of upside. Bush showed improvement. Tell me who we can get that will come in day one and outperform guys with a year of experience under their belt. I am all ears.

We both know recruiting never, ever stops at WSU. And that is ALL that WE know.

Agreed. I think Tevin is an off season away from being a really nice player off the bench. Rashard should only get better. Bush has been improving slowly all season and has a much higher ceiling than he gets credit for. Shaq could be better than Hall or Carter next year.

I look at the roster and see a versital post by committee that can match up in a lot of different ways. If you are uncomfortable with the post play this year I would imagine it's because they are new comers and need to adapt to playing for Coach. The talent is there. I don't see how bringing in another batch of new guys could seriously be considered as an option. Unless of course the guy were bringing in is Anthony Davis 2.0.

[wufan]

I see the staff selectively recruiting every high profile big out there. I don't think that necessarily means we will sign one.

[ShockTalk]

I'm going to look on the bright side of our 4/5 situation for next year. We came into this year with 6 players at those positions and 1 year of D-I experience. Things haven't gone bad so far, but we might get bit come Dance time. We'll see. Yes, I was hoping for more overall improvement out of the 5 new bigs, but I also have to temper that with the slower learning/ability curve that numerous posters have talked about with bigs over the years.

Kelly has played a lot of minutes for a true freshman, we've seen some bright spots, and some typical freshman moments, but I think I'd have to say he's done about as much as we should have expected. He's played in all 30 games so far at about 15 mpg. I see no reason he shouldn't see 20+ better minutes of play next year.

Morris, too, has gotten a fair amount of experience this year. He has a high ceiling and the only things possibly holding him back from playing 25 mpg next year are fouls and stamina. A number of his fouls this year, particularly late this season, have been questionable calls IMO. Older, more experienced opponents of his have gotten away with a lot more. He does a number of things right and I think he'll get this under control as well. His stamina will improve as well, but we do have large numbers that can spell him for breathers.

I was surprised that Glass didn't/doesn't play more. Early on, I blamed it on a juco learning to play defense the Marshall way, as, when he did play, he seemed to do OK on the offensive end. Later in the season, I thought he did a descent job on D, so now I'm not sure why he doesn't see the floor more. I believe he has a lot more potential and could be someone who will see a lot more time next year as do those second year juco bigs. 15+ mpg wouldn't surprise me.

Bush W. Before the last game, I wouldn't have given him a chance of being on the team next year. Now it is only one game, but it was also against who will probably be the PoY in the Valley. If he can give us 10+ mpg nearly like that next year, I'll be happy, happy, happy.

Nurger showed some early flashes of being the one who might come out of this group who would start to see regular time. He had his age and post prep also on his side. For me, he's at the bottom of this group, at this moment. I'm going to believe in those early flashes that he's got what it takes to see more PT, but at his age, if it doesn't happen next year.....

Let's not forget Hamilton. He'll be coming in as a post grad prep and I think he may be able to match Kelly's freshman play in his first year. Hopefully, that will be enough.

Wessel, Brown, and McDuffie. I would much rather see these 3 guys at the SF, but they have and/or could give us time at the 4. I hope it won't be needed very often.

That's 6 true 4/5s to divide up 80 minutes. If Kelly and Morris can take on 45 minutes, surely there will be a couple that will move up to take on the remaining 35 besides Wessel.

:wsu_posters:

[1979Shocker]

My depth chart estimation. Lots of depth and possibilities. No new big unless he is quality.

1 - FVV / RB / Taylor / CF
2 - RB / CF / Shamet
3 - EW / ZB / RB
4 - MM / EW / RK / EH
5 - SM / RN / BW / EH

I could see ZB also playing some 2 and MM playing some 3.

[Aargh]

Lots of nice depth charts in this thread based on about 17 players on the roster. Couple things seem to be getting missed in a lot of posts.

1. Bigs are the slowest to develop. Some seem to be ready to dump Nurger to solve the scholarship problem. Or dump him and sign a JuCo big. If Nurgter is gone next year, the coaches have concluded there's no hope for improvement over the next 3 years. I think that's unlikely.

2. Some have Wamukota as a trfr prospect.. Our 2 best post players couldn't stop Tuttle (possibly the best post the Shox have faced this year). Wamukota forced him into 2 TO's and shut him down. It seems highly unlikely that the player who appears to be the best post defender THIS YEAR might be gone next year.

3. McDuffie weighs 175 lbs. and people want to pencil him in as the first or second option at PF. At that weight, McDuffie better be able to guard a SF, 'cause he will get abused defending a PF. SF is held down by Wessel and Brown in most projections. McDuffie is the prime candidate for a year at Sunrise, based on his weight and his age.

4. This year's Fr class was pretty heavily hyped. How'd that work out? Never rely on Fr or first-year JuCo's to be contributors.

5) Don't confuse top-100 players with top-20 pl;ayers. Top-100 players don't tend to become immediate difference-makers on top-20 teams. If WSU was still a top-50 type team, then the top-100 level recruits would be expected to be immediate contributors, but they're role players on typical top-20 teams.

[jocoshock]

Lots of nice depth charts in this thread based on about 17 players on the roster. Couple things seem to be getting missed in a lot of posts.

1. Bigs are the slowest to develop. Some seem to be ready to dump Nurger to solve the scholarship problem. Or dump him and sign a JuCo big. If Nurgter is gone next year, the coaches have concluded there's no hope for improvement over the next 3 years. I think that's unlikely.

2. Some have Wamukota as a trfr prospect.. Our 2 best post players couldn't stop Tuttle (possibly the best post the Shox have faced this year). Wamukota forced him into 2 TO's and shut him down. It seems highly unlikely that the player who appears to be the best post defender THIS YEAR might be gone next year.

3. McDuffie weighs 175 lbs. and people want to pencil him in as the first or second option at PF. At that weight, McDuffie better be able to guard a SF, 'cause he will get abused defending a PF. SF is held down by Wessel and Brown in most projections. McDuffie is the prime candidate for a year at Sunrise, based on his weight and his age.

4. This year's Fr class was pretty heavily hyped. How'd that work out? Never rely on Fr or first-year JuCo's to be contributors.

5) Don't confuse top-100 players with top-20 pl;ayers. Top-100 players don't tend to become immediate difference-makers on top-20 teams. If WSU was still a top-50 type team, then the top-100 level recruits would be expected to be immediate contributors, but they're role players on typical top-20 teams.

All good points. I had overlooked Markis's weight. Agree that he will have to add at least 30 pounds on his frame. It looks like most web sites have him at 185. Tevin is around 206, and most believe he is a little light. Brown is around 213 and he seems to hold his own when he has had to play at the 4, but he is a true 3. Time will tell... as in 2 or three years time...