In the current 'Mt. Rushmore' mode....

[ShockTalk]

Malcolm Armstead was stellar. Don't forget about him.

I didn't. Check above. :playful:

[another shocker]

antoine carr was the best shot-blocker i've seen at wichita state

[im4wsu]

antoine carr was the best shot-blocker i've seen at wichita state

Gene Wiley for blocking shots.

[Dan]

Evan Wessel isn't too shabby. The dude routinely has to give up 3-4" on his guy every single game

[ShockTalk]

Gene Wiley for blocking shots.

Gene was before I moved to Wichita. It's always seems hard to compare players of different eras, different skill leveled teammates, and different levels of competition. When you have all 3, it's harder yet.

Just from a numbers standpoint:
If Wiley played in all his team's games (not sure where to find that), 79, and he had 105 blocks, that's 1.33 per game.
Carr played in 112 games and had 209 blocks for 1.87 per game.

That's a pretty big statistical difference. Now if Gene only played in about 75% of those games, that would be different. However, Gene also only played his sophomore-senior years and Carr's average is brought down by his freshman year. Through Carr's sophomore-senior 3 years, he had 2.04 blocks per game.

[1972Shocker]

Antoine better over his career. Gene had the best single season.

[ShockTalk]

Antoine better over his career. Gene had the best single season.

Can those that saw Gene play tell the rest of us just what changed in that season to make such a change from one season to another?

[1972Shocker]

Can those that saw Gene play tell the rest of us just what changed in that season to make such a change from one season to another?

I was 11 years old during the 1961-62 season when Gene Willey blocked 80 shots setting the single season record that still stands. The Shocks played 27 games that year so Gene averaged just under 3 blocks per game that year. .

I really don't have a good 1st hand recollection of watching Gene play other than that he was long and lean (6-10, 210) so my input is really not worth that much.

He had very little experience as a basketball player when he came to Wichita State. Here is a good article about Gene:

http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/wichita-state/article1148387.html

Because of his lack of experience he no doubt made big leaps in effectiveness from year-to-year. The interesting thing about his 80 blocked shots in 1961-62 is that 49 of them (yes, 49) came in his 4 triple-double games that year (his senior year). I suspect there were games where Gene was hampered with foul trouble but it is also likely that Gene's intimidation factor (much like Ehimen Orupke) simply deterred teams from even challenging him that year. Those that did challenge him did him a favor. Just ask Purdue (15 blocks), Santa Clara (12 blocks), Tulsa (10 blocks) and Louisville (12 blocks) who chose to challenge him that year. This is really just a guess though. I too would like to hear from any of those who actually saw and remember Gene as a player.

As far as I know Gene is still living as is Cleo Littleton I believe. Would it not be wonderful to get as many players as possible from the pre-Dave Stallworth years back in the arena and let them know they are not forgotten men.

[im4wsu]

Gene was so raw, it was unbelievable. Early on, he got in foul trouble quicker than Darius or Shaq. Gene was taught by Ralph Miller to hold both arms above his head while lined up to rebound opponents' free throws, so that he would not use his hands. I understood at the time that Gene could touch the top of the backboard when jumping. Once he learned to keep his arms up, he was formiddible. Had a sweet little hook shot, with either hand. iirc, Gene held Wilt to his lowest point total in an NBA game (excluding that one where when he decided not to shoot, but to lead the league in assists).

[60Shock]

I am not meaning to take one bit of anything away from Tekele, Ron, FVV, or any past outstanding Shocker players of any century. They should be honored, along with everyone else for the records they break.

But, numbers alone are meaningless especially when you consider the caliber of the schools we played 18 or more games against in the MVC during the mid-1950's through the 1980's and then compare how much easier it is to score more points, more rebounds, more steals, and so forth, against the much weaker MVC teams of the 21st century. Nor does it take in the time clock, the 3 pointer, and significant more games played, and so on.

That's why it is so difficult to judge players from different decades. Too many factors, including the game, change.

[molly jabali]

I am not meaning to take one bit of anything away from Tekele, Ron, FVV, or any past outstanding Shocker players of any century. They should be honored, along with everyone else for the records they break.

But, numbers alone are meaningless especially when you consider the caliber of the schools we played 18 or more games against in the MVC during the mid-1950's through the 1980's and then compare how much easier it is to score more points, more rebounds, more steals, and so forth, against the much weaker MVC teams of the 21st century. Nor does it take in the time clock, the 3 pointer, and significant more games played, and so on.

That's why it is so difficult to judge players from different decades. Too many factors, including the game, change.

Understood...but it's kind of like ANY discussion...you have to suspend a bit of reality....

[1972Shocker]

I am not meaning to take one bit of anything away from Tekele, Ron, FVV, or any past outstanding Shocker players of any century. They should be honored, along with everyone else for the records they break.

But, numbers alone are meaningless especially when you consider the caliber of the schools we played 18 or more games against in the MVC during the mid-1950's through the 1980's and then compare how much easier it is to score more points, more rebounds, more steals, and so forth, against the much weaker MVC teams of the 21st century. Nor does it take in the time clock, the 3 pointer, and significant more games played, and so on.

That's why it is so difficult to judge players from different decades. Too many factors, including the game, change.

No doubt about it. Also the game has changed a lot since the 1960's. Player's are generally bigger, stronger and more athletic and more specialized in one sport. The numbers of good players is much greater. Perhaps most importantly the game has become substantially more physical in nature. In the 1960's basketball players were discouraged from lifting weights or they would become muscle-bound. Today the weight room is an integral part of these players lives.

However, the Valley had pretty much morphed into it's current structure by 1975.