Shockers vs Braves GAME Thread

[ShockerEngineer]

Agreed. It is important to take a step back. I am guilty of it just as much as others, but sometimes I feel like we are heading down the KU path of spoiledness. Oh lord that is one of the main reasons I hate them. Maybe the team is mirroring ShockerNet with the lack of smiles during the game.

This is supposed to be fun for everyone, after all.

I've had similar thoughts about us becoming like KU fans, in some ways. Particularly, how some on this board seem to really look down on the rest of the Valley, like they're not worthy of us.

[Shock Therapy]

Can you point me to one of the "some" who are denying that we have played poorly the last few games though? This seems like a strawman.

It's possible to be displeased about near-term trends while maintaining the bigger picture view that we are having a fantastic season, and this is simply a customary dip. If we are truly a paper tiger as you assert, then quant models like KenPom or Massey would expose this since they are far less heavily weighted towards simple wins/losses (as opposed to systems like the RPI or voter polls). Instead we are 16 in KenPom, 15 in Massey, and similarly slotted through most of the advanced stats systems. That absolutely includes all of the games lately and in mid-December where we played like ****, and it also factors in quality of opponents. The fact is that outside of the top handful of teams each year there is a large crowd in the ~10 to 30 range who have seriously inconsistent stretches and high ceilings. We are in that group this year, just as we were back in 2012 and 2013.

The tendency here this season has been to inspect our flaws and downturns under a magnifying glass while glossing over the periods of incredible play as "expected." There are plenty of folks willing to cap our potential in the media and elsewhere; why not err on the side of optimism as fans? Instead, we have a sizable contingent who assume periods of poor play are always indicative of larger trends (speculation that this team would mirror 2006-07 following the GW loss, etc.).

The best teams in history play well almost every time out. Really good, even great teams, find ways to win when they are playing poorly to mask their downturns. Decent and poor teams lose those games. We have so much room for improvement and we're managed to maintain a mid-teens ranking in basically every system for the entire year. That has to give everyone a ton of hope.

No one is saying that we've played great the last few games, but when it comes to people pulling out numbers to say that nothing is wrong overall, you're one of the main culprits. The problem that it isn't just the last few games. There are significant pockets of inexplicable bad play throughout the season.

[fuball7]

remember final four season. i believe we lost 3 valley games in a row. lost to one of the worst teams in the league on our home court on final day of the season with chance to win title. bad play can happen but doesnt mean cant still have a great season. And we did win last night. thats the key part. all the teams goals still are attainable.

[Play Angry]

No one is saying that we've played great the last few games, but when it comes to people pulling out numbers to say that nothing is wrong overall, you're one of the main culprits. The problem that it isn't just the last few games. There are significant pockets of inexplicable bad play throughout the season.

Let's see some numbers that say things are wrong overall, then. You disagree with KenPom, Massey, RPI and AP voters. What are you citing besides simple frustration with recent play?

[jocoshock]

This win felt like a loss. I've never been so meh after a game in such a while. Don't get me wrong. I'm glad we won, but damn. Just an absolute brutal game to watch. Still stunned we didn't make a FG the last half of the second half and still won. Bradley is that bad. The officiating was horrible. We couldn't get a whistle down low, while Carter was getting hosed. I hate Kip Kissinger with a passion.

The lineup combinations is annoying at best in these types of games. When that stuff starts happening, our offense disappears every single time. I get it, late in games, when we're up 20+. But not late in the first half. I've seen too many times when that stuff starts happening, we grind our way to ugly, abysmal wins. Wins yes, but I feel like it does more hurt than good.

20-3 problems though.

Just like the Loyola game last year. If grinding through games gets the bench some needed minutes, that hopefully pay off in March, then by all means keep grinding. As long as it doesn't bite us against IllNoise State or UNI....

[Shock Therapy]

Let's see some numbers that say things are wrong overall, then. You disagree with KenPom, Massey, RPI and AP voters. What are you citing besides simple frustration with recent play?

Seriously? I'm a firm believer that the numbers don't tell the whole story. I've said that several times. That's my main complaint against the sunshine pumpers.

[jocoshock]

This is incorrect. Once you reach a certain level, it is in fact, a beauty contest. Past a point it isn’t just about winning. It’s about playing quality basketball and looking like we belong. I think that most of us understand this, but there are still some that keep quoting rankings and record as if that demonstrates that nothing is wrong. With our poor play lately, our ranking is turning into a house built on sand. I don’t think that the sky is falling yet, but to act like this is normal and that everything is great is asinine.

Some really ugly teams have won National Championships. NC State in '83, KU in '88, UConn with Kemba Walker. Not sayin the Shox look THAT ugly, or that we will wina NC. I am saying we need to chill, take one game at a time, and try to enjoy the season and watch this team grow...

[ShockerEngineer]

Some really ugly teams have won National Championships. NC State in '83, KU in '88, UConn with Kemba Walker. Not sayin the Shox look THAT ugly, or that we will wina NC. I am saying wd need to chill, take one game at a time, and try to enjoy the season and watch this team grow...

I'm also trying to take the stance that there's no point in worrying about this. None of us can control it anyway.

[Play Angry]

Seriously? I'm a firm believer that the numbers don't tell the whole story. I've said that several times. That's my main complaint against the sunshine pumpers.

It's not sunshine pumping when someone is saying we pretty much line up with computer rankings and polls. You are the one saying they are wrong and we are worse than depicted by subjective (rankings) and objective measurements (KenPom, Massey) with no support beyond your personal eye test.

One seems less rational than the other. If I am a sunshine pumper, you are the prime minister of downersville.

[Shock Therapy]

It's not sunshine pumping when someone is saying we pretty much line up with computer rankings and polls. You are the one saying they are wrong and we are worse than depicted by subjective (rankings) and objective measurements (KenPom, Massey).

One seems less rational than the other. If I am a sunshine pumper, you are the prime minister of downersville.

Nope, I'm just a realist.

[Shock Therapy]

Some really ugly teams have won National Championships. NC State in '83, KU in '88, UConn with Kemba Walker. Not sayin the Shox look THAT ugly, or that we will wina NC. I am saying we need to chill, take one game at a time, and try to enjoy the season and watch this team grow...

I think that everyone agreed that neither UConn or Butler deserved to win the championship after that game. At halftime Charles Barkley asked if we could give the title to someone else. That game was an insult to fans of the sport.

[im4wsu]

Originally Posted by SB Shock

Just for perspective sakes

4 Duke edges GT 72-66, GT is 1-9 in ACC
10 ND edges BC 71-63, BC is 1-8 in ACC
17 Maryland edges Penn St 64-58, Penn St is 2-8 in B10

Those were all at home for the victors as well.

How many of them had a 17-point lead and hung on? I'd rather have a 17-pt lead and hang on than trail by 10 and have to come back, especially at home.

[jocoshock]

I think that everyone agreed that neither UConn or Butler deserved to win the championship after that game. At halftime Charles Barkley asked if we could give the title to someone else. That game was an insult to fans of the sport.

The teams I referenced played ugly the entire season....

Even last years UConn team wasn't that pretty...

[Kung Wu]

Well grumble grumble grumble grumble grumbled. Grumble's grumble grumble grumble grumble grumble, grumble grumble grumble Kentucky grumbled grumble grumble grumble grumble grumble grumble. Grumble grumble't grumble grumble grumble grumble grumble grumbling grumble grumble grumble grumble grumble grumble. Grumble's grumble grumble grumble grumble part II.

[shockerfan]

I was definately concerned last night. Obviously this team has flaws which need addressed (like most teams out there). I woke up today and reminded myself there are about 300 teams out there that WISH they had our problems. All in all its been a good season thus far. And it's always a great day to be a Shocker.

Just keep grinding!!