Shockers vs Braves GAME Thread

[pie n eye]

I think we as fans sometimes forget that the objective of the game of basketball is to score at least one more point than the other team. It's not a beauty contest.

Some fans have been spoiled by last year. Proof? We're locked in a battle for first place with UNI yet people are talking about "well gee this is a one and done NCAA team." A regular season Valley championship is now a foregone conclusion that, even if we manage to win it (which isn't a lock at this point), won't even register as an accomplishment to some. Valley tournament that we've managed to win once in 25 years? Yawn. It's a foregone conclusion.

Basketball is also not played on paper. KenPom says teams A, C, and D are way better than team B which we barely beat last night. That's meaningless. We didn't play team A, C, or D last night. We played team B and won.

I'm not going to try to argue that we are playing our best right now, were obviously not. But I also don't expect them to play their best every single night because it's just not possible. I was nervous about this game. A team that isn't used to losing let alone by ~20 got worked Saturday at Cedar Falls. Then they get a day of rest, two days of practice and have to go play at a last place team who has underperformed all year, is wounded, and whose coach is probably pissed at the team and you've got a recipe for a trap game.

[pinstripers]

Fever is right, it felt like a loss. I thought most of the substitution was going on during the first 30 minutes, was it not? Also, toward the end, Ron seemed to be running the point while Fred was on the floor, what was up with that?

[Shock Therapy]

I think we as fans sometimes forget that the objective of the game of basketball is to score at least one more point than the other team. It's not a beauty contest.

This is incorrect. Once you reach a certain level, it is in fact, a beauty contest. Past a point it isn’t just about winning. It’s about playing quality basketball and looking like we belong. I think that most of us understand this, but there are still some that keep quoting rankings and record as if that demonstrates that nothing is wrong. With our poor play lately, our ranking is turning into a house built on sand. I don’t think that the sky is falling yet, but to act like this is normal and that everything is great is asinine.

[molly jabali]

I think we as fans sometimes forget that the objective of the game of basketball is to score at least one more point than the other team. It's not a beauty contest.

Some fans have been spoiled by last year. Proof? We're locked in a battle for first place with UNI yet people are talking about "well gee this is a one and done NCAA team." A regular season Valley championship is now a foregone conclusion that, even if we manage to win it (which isn't a lock at this point), won't even register as an accomplishment to some. Valley tournament that we've managed to win once in 25 years? Yawn. It's a foregone conclusion.

Basketball is also not played on paper. KenPom says teams A, C, and D are way better than team B which we barely beat last night. That's meaningless. We didn't play team A, C, or D last night. We played team B and won.

I'm not going to try to argue that we are playing our best right now, were obviously not. But I also don't expect them to play their best every single night because it's just not possible. I was nervous about this game. A team that isn't used to losing let alone by ~20 got worked Saturday at Cedar Falls. Then they get a day of rest, two days of practice and have to go play at a last place team who has underperformed all year, is wounded, and whose coach is probably pissed at the team and you've got a recipe for a trap game.

You, sir, make way too much sense!Very good post...

[WstateU]

Every good season, except one, in the last 50+ years has featured large swings in our quality of play. The downturns under Marshall seem to feature 3-5 poor games, followed by a significantly longer stretch of really well-played basketball. People always extrapolate the "slumps" (still winning for the most part despite below average execution) to be permanent. Instead, it's like a pendulum.

Our RPI is 14. Our KenPom is 16. Our AP ranking is 16. We are 20-3 (10-1).

Maybe tuck the doom boners. We are in another mini-slump during a fantastic season. It happens. We have the potential to make a deep run in the tournament, and we also are capable of losing in the round of 64. There are maybe five teams in the country who do not fall into that same category for a potential opening game exit from the dance.

Gotta just enjoy a great year rather than shovel dirt on it at the first signs of every downturn.

I believe I've heard HCGM say something like this; during the season there are 5 games where you play better than you are and another 5 games you play worse than you are; the other 25-30 games are actually who you are. I probably screwed that up, but you get the idea.

[WstateU]

Maybe not the best comparison, however a KU buddy reminded me of the January 28th KU/TCU game and finish; TCU finished the non-conference at 13-0 (SOS 347). KU won 64-61 AT TCU.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/TCU/tcu-horned-frogs

Following the game Mr. Rug said; ''I've been to the dentist and got a root canal and I may have enjoyed that slightly more than watching the last 2 minutes,''.
The Jayhawks led 59-48 when Mason made his last jumper. They didn't score again until Brannen Greene made five free throws in the final 37 seconds.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/gametracker/recap/NCAAB_20150128_KANSAS@TCU

$hit happens! A win is a win and NEVER take road wins for granted.


Cue JH4P in 3, 2, 1...

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Cue JH4P in 3, 2, 1...

What am I supposed to say? Do I enter stage left or stage right?

[ShockerFever]

Neither GT, BC, or Penn St would even be playing Thursday night in the MVC, much less be in dead last. All 3 are light years better than Bradley. Same goes for crappy 'ole Drake.

It is scary how much trouble this Shocker team has had with some of the truly wretched MVC bottom feeders. The roller coaster season continues.

Don't kid yourself. Those are horrible teams aided by a league RPI that makes their numbers look better. Are they better than Bradley? Yeah, probably, but the numbers don't tell the complete story.

Again, all of those close wins were at home. I think people take road wins and style points for granted with what they've done on the road the last 5 years.

**** happens. You can't play perfect basketball ALL OF THE TIME. Most of the time when you play that shitty, you lose. We didn't.

Next.

[ShockerFever]

What am I supposed to say? Do I enter stage left or stage right?

How about replace enter for exit?

[Play Angry]

This is incorrect. Once you reach a certain level, it is in fact, a beauty contest. Past a point it isn’t just about winning. It’s about playing quality basketball and looking like we belong. I think that most of us understand this, but there are still some that keep quoting rankings and record as if that demonstrates that nothing is wrong. With our poor play lately, our ranking is turning into a house built on sand. I don’t think that the sky is falling yet, but to act like this is normal and that everything is great is asinine.

Can you point me to one of the "some" who are denying that we have played poorly the last few games though? This seems like a strawman.

It's possible to be displeased about near-term trends while maintaining the bigger picture view that we are having a fantastic season, and this is simply a customary dip. If we are truly a paper tiger as you assert, then quant models like KenPom or Massey would expose this since they are far less heavily weighted towards simple wins/losses (as opposed to systems like the RPI or voter polls). Instead we are 16 in KenPom, 15 in Massey, and similarly slotted through most of the advanced stats systems. That absolutely includes all of the games lately and in mid-December where we played like ****, and it also factors in quality of opponents. The fact is that outside of the top handful of teams each year there is a large crowd in the ~10 to 30 range who have seriously inconsistent stretches and high ceilings. We are in that group this year, just as we were back in 2012 and 2013.

The tendency here this season has been to inspect our flaws and downturns under a magnifying glass while glossing over the periods of incredible play as "expected." There are plenty of folks willing to cap our potential in the media and elsewhere; why not err on the side of optimism as fans? Instead, we have a sizable contingent who assume periods of poor play are always indicative of larger trends (speculation that this team would mirror 2006-07 following the GW loss, etc.).

The best teams in history play well almost every time out. Really good, even great teams, find ways to win when they are playing poorly to mask their downturns. Decent and poor teams lose those games. We have so much room for improvement and we're managed to maintain a mid-teens ranking in basically every system for the entire year. That has to give everyone a ton of hope.

[Jhook89]

Our tendency to jack up 3's worries me. It seems like our offense settles on shooting 3's fairly often

[Ol skool]

[QUOTE=Slalomshocker;540633]First, for about 25-30mins I think WSU played just fine. There were some excellent passes and some really good movement against their zone. Then the substitution issue came up. When Fred or Ron are on the floor with the young guys teams know they only have to defend 1 guy. Fred/Ron seem to take it all upon themselves to score and the offensive flow goes to crap. I'm not blaming them, the new guys have to step up and try to contribute. How many times have we seen one of the newbies get the ball and not look to do anything except pass it to the next spot? Lots. Until someone gains some confidence and steps up, its going to be tough. I agree that the rotation needs to be 'set' and should be 9 deep with 10/11 getting spot minutes if foul trouble occurs. Shaq and Kelly for bigs, Brown and Henderson for guards. If Glass is progressing well, then you work him in with the bigs. You can still give guys spot minutes, but I think where things have been going south is when coach throws 4 newbies in all at once. They just aren't ready yet from what I've seen. Add in the desire to make the best of the 2-3mins they get and you end up with guys trying to do too much and being sped up. Or the exact opposite as described above, they try too hard to not make mistakes.
Yes choose a certain rotation alllow and live with some individual mistakes
Hopefully some rotational chemistry will develope.
All in all, this team is struggling j

[ShockerFever]

(speculation that this team would mirror 2006-07 following the GW loss, etc.).

Ha, that was good stuff.

Remember that awesome thread, SB Shock?

[Ol skool]

[QUOTE=Ol skool;540660]

First, for about 25-30mins I think WSU played just fine. There were some excellent passes and some really good movement against their zone. Then the substitution issue came up. When Fred or Ron are on the floor with the young guys teams know they only have to defend 1 guy. Fred/Ron seem to take it all upon themselves to score and the offensive flow goes to crap. I'm not blaming them, the new guys have to step up and try to contribute. How many times have we seen one of the newbies get the ball and not look to do anything except pass it to the next spot? Lots. Until someone gains some confidence and steps up, its going to be tough. I agree that the rotation needs to be 'set' and should be 9 deep with 10/11 getting spot minutes if foul trouble occurs. Shaq and Kelly for bigs, Brown and Henderson for guards. If Glass is progressing well, then you work him in with the bigs. You can still give guys spot minutes, but I think where things have been going south is when coach throws 4 newbies in all at once. They just aren't ready yet from what I've seen. Add in the desire to make the best of the 2-3mins they get and you end up with guys trying to do too much and being sped up. Or the exact opposite as described above, they try too hard to not make mistakes.
Yes choose a certain rotation alllow and live with some individual mistakes
Hopefully some rotational chemistry will develope.
All in all, this team is struggling j

Some how I stepped on the post that I was responding too. Sorry about that. My comments begin with yes choose a certain rotation. And ended with hopefully some rotational chemistry will develops.
Again sorry for stepping on original comment.

[1972Shocker]

The big issues last night in my view were getting outrebounded 16-7 and outscored on 2nd chance points 16-4 and committing 14 turnovers (7 by Fred, Ron and Tekele).

I think the rebounding is correctable and the turnovers perhaps somewhat of an aberration.

I'm not sure if Bradley deserves credit for taking Ron Baker out of the equation but he needs to get more than 6 shots and Ron took no shots in the final 13 minutes when the Shocks went 0-8. Tekele was 0-3 (all 3-pointers), Shaq was 0-2, Darius was 0-1, Fred was 0-1 and Corey air-balled a 3 pointer.

Our free throw shooting wasn't great but it was about what it has been all season.

It was almost like we just turned off the engine with 12:30 minutes to go and just tried to cruise home and then when things tightened up again the engine wouldn't restart (which is not uncommon).