#12 WSU @ #18 UNI - Game Thread

[WstateU]

I know there are people who hate for me to keep pointing this out, but I've been pointing it out since the Utah game. Evan Wessel is not a good solution at PF against a big, talented front line.

Yet people still say he can play PF. How many games do we have to lose for the skeptics to understand this. I like Evan's hustle, I think he is a valuable player and I think he ought to be out on the floor.

I just don't think he's a 4 or a 5 and playing him significant minutes during the tournament at those positions will probably get us sent home after the first round. He's just too small to block out a big PF or C on rebounding and defense. Plus, he's not really an offensive threat. At least Shaq has some post moves and keeps the defense honest (b/c if they don't cover him he WILL score).

Count me as one of those who thinks Shaq needs to be starting. He's fouling a lot, but again, I remember Levingston and Carr had problems with fouls their freshmen year. He needs to be out on the court to learn to manage and work through those situations when he is in foul trouble.

I also hope that Wessel stays around for next year. He would get Cotton's minutes.

sk, this isn't a criticism of you; you make some good points, however I'm not going to be too critical of last years national coach of the year and someone considered by many to be one of the very best current coaches in college basketball; I know this is a message board, but HCGM and his staff know more about the game than likely all of us combined. Do I agree with every game decision he makes; no, but who am I to tell him what player should be playing a position or starting? He's the guy making the big bucks and calling the shots. If I was invited to attend all practices, I might have a better understanding of some of his decisions; I'll bet he and his staff have their reasons for who deserves playing time and what position is best suited for each player. I just wish we played tomorrow night versus Wednesday night to get this bad taste out of everyone's mouth.

[SHOXAAC]

I yelled and screamed at the tv monitor from midway in the first half till well into the second for the Shox to go zone. The two times he went zone...zero points for UNI. He didn't return to it for the rest of the game. I'm not asking for a complete transition to zone, but why not consistently mix it in (especially when it's effective) with man-to-man? Tuttle and company completely ate our front court up. Zone is an effective short-term defensive tool. Use it.

[shocka khan]

sk, this isn't a criticism of you; you make some good points, however I'm not going to be too critical of last years national coach of the year and someone considered by many to be one of the very best current coaches in college basketball; I know this is a message board, but HCGM and his staff know more about the game than likely all of us combined. Do I agree with every game decision he makes; no, but who am I to tell him what player should be playing a position or starting? He's the guy making the big bucks and calling the shots. If I was invited to attend all practices, I might have a better understanding of some of his decisions; I'll bet he and his staff have their reasons for who deserves playing time and what position is best suited for each player. I just wish we played tomorrow night versus Wednesday night to get this bad taste out of everyone's mouth.

I said to someone yesterday that a loss like this could be therapeutic, mainly because it will drive change. I don't know what changes HCGM Will make, but I bet there will be at least a little tweaking. I'm not sure if everyone will be happy with said changes, but I do know HCGM knows more about his team thanI do.

[shockmonster]

I yelled and screamed at the tv monitor from midway in the first half till well into the second for the Shox to go zone. The two times he went zone...zero points for UNI. He didn't return to it for the rest of the game. I'm not asking for a complete transition to zone, but why not consistently mix it in (especially when it's effective) with man-to-man? Tuttle and company completely ate our front court up. Zone is an effective short-term defensive tool. Use it.

Yes I think that may be a good idea. I don't remember us using it this year so i'm not sure how prepared we are to use it but I wouldn't be surprised if it is a part of our game plan next time we play UNI (we need to not wait until the score is out of hand to use it). I know that Marshall said how impressed he was with the outside shooting of UNI so I think that we would use it as a change and perhaps go back and forth.

[Shock Top]

Yes I think that may be a good idea. I don't remember us using it this year so i'm not sure how prepared we are to use it but I wouldn't be surprised if it is a part of our game plan next time we play UNI (we need to not wait until the score is out of hand to use it.

I don't recall them using it much, if at all, this season either.

[molly jabali]

Was out of state for the game, so just watched it thoroughly, and to me, it was a perfect storm of negativity for WSU....a VERY good opponent that felt it, a student body that felt it, and a Shocker team that had a bad night. Not the end of the world by any means. UNI is very experienced...been building for this year.

This 'playing zone' thing...I've observed great coaches for years, both very close up and from a great distance and with some guys, it appears that even a tiny taste of zone is an admission of a lack of manhood.I GET THE MAN TO MAN...that's what I TOTALLY prefer...but part of effective coaching is situational flexibility. I think,for example, Duke's season got back on track for them when they went zone to keep Okafor near the goal. Just saying, it's a legal option, and if it's a better option, maybe trot it out a bit.

[shock]

UNI has 5 seniors, 5 juniors, 2 sophomores and a handful of redshirt freshmen. Like every other great UNI team, they have solid veteran leadership.

[im4wsu]

I know there are people who hate for me to keep pointing this out, but I've been pointing it out since the Utah game. Evan Wessel is not a good solution at PF against a big, talented front line.

Yet people still say he can play PF. How many games do we have to lose for the skeptics to understand this. I like Evan's hustle, I think he is a valuable player and I think he ought to be out on the floor.

I just don't think he's a 4 or a 5 and playing him significant minutes during the tournament at those positions will probably get us sent home after the first round. He's just too small to block out a big PF or C on rebounding and defense. Plus, he's not really an offensive threat. At least Shaq has some post moves and keeps the defense honest (b/c if they don't cover him he WILL score).

Count me as one of those who thinks Shaq needs to be starting. He's fouling a lot, but again, I remember Levingston and Carr had problems with fouls their freshmen year. He needs to be out on the court to learn to manage and work through those situations when he is in foul trouble.

I also hope that Wessel stays around for next year. He would get Cotton's minutes.

You could say the same thing about DC, ZB, BW, RN, TG and whatever other Shocker you wish to name (although I did not see RB, RH, FVV or CH play the 4 spot), so why pick solely on Wessel? He did make 20% of the Shocker three-point shots.

Do you really believe that it makes any difference whether Shaq plays the first 14 minutes, the middle 14 minutes or the last 14 minutes? Whatever, it is only 14 minutes.

[mjbaker84]

thoughts on ranking drop after the loss?
move us to 17-19 range?

[Slalomshocker]

We might as well all come to the understanding that Wessel is going to play the 4 spot for 20mins each game. It is how this current roster is, nothing anyone can do about it. Is it ideal? No. Do I wish there was a 6'8"+ 250lb bruiser to take his place...absolutely. However, its just not there. For what its worth, Evan playing the 4 had absolutely zero affect on the outcome of the game. Seth Tuttle did whatever he wanted down low (hooks included). Couple that with the inability to defend dribble penetration from Washpun and it was going to be a bad day. Morris and Carter picked up some rather cheap fouls early (imo) and that allowed Tuttle to really get going. No one individual had any more negative impact than any other. UNI played A+ basketball, WSU couldn't get anything going. It is what it is. Evan Wessel is extremely valuable, he just needs to be used in matchup situations that allow him to be an asset. If that means he plays the 3 instead because matchups dictate that...fine. If matchups dictate he is guarding a 6'6" PF, fine. His use simply needs to be tied to matchups. But until another option steps up the best option is to have Wessel on the floor.

[asiseeit]

Good post by molly earlier re zone. She nailed it when she said "situational flexability".
I think it is important to have it in your arsenal to use under certain circumstances.
Having said that I certainly don't expect us or want us to become a zone team because
it does not fit our overall team character or mantra of playing angry, however, we have
a few players who don't move their feet particularly well and pick up fouls from being a
step behind their men. I don't think that man plays into the defensive strengths of
DC, RN or BW and I would use some zone for short periods when they are on the floor.
We could never match up with a team like Kentucky with multiple powerful big me.
My guess, and its just a guess, is that GM does not want to show any zone to anyone
until March.

[shockmonster]

Was out of state for the game, so just watched it thoroughly, and to me, it was a perfect storm of negativity for WSU....a VERY good opponent that felt it, a student body that felt it, and a Shocker team that had a bad night. Not the end of the world by any means. UNI is very experienced...been building for this year.

This 'playing zone' thing...I've observed great coaches for years, both very close up and from a great distance and with some guys, it appears that even a tiny taste of zone is an admission of a lack of manhood.I GET THE MAN TO MAN...that's what I TOTALLY prefer...but part of effective coaching is situational flexibility. I think,for example, Duke's season got back on track for them when they went zone to keep Okafor near the goal. Just saying, it's a legal option, and if it's a better option, maybe trot it out a bit.

I agree that good coaches have flexibility but you need to have spent valuable practice time practicing what you do. An ineffective, unpracticed defense is a recipe for disaster. It needs to be in the game plan. It used to be that a good number of coaches played multiple defenses (different zones, half court zone presses, full court zone presses, M/M, etc.). Now you don't see that. You may see Syracuse play lots of zone. But most play full court M/M, half run/jump trap, doubling the post from someone, full court zone trap but little half court zone.

[B1ShockFan]

After thinking about the game for a while I feel we were really missing Coach Jans, he always seemed to have us so well prepared. I love Coach Marshall and believe he is one of the very best coaches in the nation but missing this part of his crew possibly hurt the preparation.

[Ricardo del Rio]

Was out of state for the game, so just watched it thoroughly, and to me, it was a perfect storm of negativity for WSU....a VERY good opponent that felt it, a student body that felt it, and a Shocker team that had a bad night. Not the end of the world by any means. UNI is very experienced...been building for this year.

This 'playing zone' thing...I've observed great coaches for years, both very close up and from a great distance and with some guys, it appears that even a tiny taste of zone is an admission of a lack of manhood.I GET THE MAN TO MAN...that's what I TOTALLY prefer...but part of effective coaching is situational flexibility. I think,for example, Duke's season got back on track for them when they went zone to keep Okafor near the goal. Just saying, it's a legal option, and if it's a better option, maybe trot it out a bit.

Yes.

[B1ShockFan]

After thinking about this game for a while I believe we were really missing Coach Jans, he always seemed to have us so well prepared. I feel Coach Marshall is one of the elite coaches in America but missing this part of his coaching crew could have had a part in our game execution.