Wooden Watch Midseason List - Top 25

[Shox21]

I'm hoping you aren't saying the team is currently not performing up to expectations...

And are you saying you think this is the best they can play? I think even Marshal would take exception to that. They are playing okay right now -- but I see so much more upside to this team. And it's coming.l

[molly jabali]

He cares. I guarantee you. Who wouldn't who has aspirations of playing after college? You have to be noticed. But also, I think you are correct. The team's success far outweighs his pursuit of personal hardware.

Oh, I agree....but I'm pretty sure he's smart enough to know that playing after college is not necessarily tied to this list...but his caring has to be secondary to him, I would think...

[Jhook89]

I'd say to this point it is perfectly reasonable to have Baker on this list and not FVV. FVV could very well work his way back onto the list though with the way he has played the last couple games.

[Dan]

Just because Fred is not on the list doesn't mean he isn't noticed. There were scouts at the Loyola game specifically there to watch both Fred and Ron. They're probably at many of our games.

[Spaulding]

And are you saying you think this is the best they can play? I think even Marshal would take exception to that. They are playing okay right now -- but I see so much more upside to this team. And it's coming.l

I certainly never said I think this is the best they can play. I guess I must have had my expectations skewed going in to the season. If you look at what this team lost, and the growing "status" as a team that everyone gets up to play, it is reasonable to expect that they won't win every game by 20 points and go undefeated. I will take 14-2 and 4-0 in conference any day, and I don't really care if the margin of victory is 1 or 20. I just think some people need to have some perspective, that's all.

Also, I wouldn't expect a coach to come out and say, gee, I really think my team has done everything they could and is playing the best they possibly can and I really don't think we could do anything better. Have you ever heard a coach say that?

[1972Shocker]

There were scouts at the Loyola game specifically there to watch both Fred and Ron.

And Milton Doyle as well.

They're probably at many of our games.

I think 3G made that point on his Monday radio show as well.

[_kai_]

Guys, what about Illinois State's players? I thought they were more talented 1-12.

[SHOXAAC]

Guys, what about Illinois State's players? I thought they were more talented 1-12.

Give Ray some time to get to all the pundits, cause we know he's not doing much coaching.

[shockerfanmas]

I might be wrong, but I can kind of see Fred not caring one bit...as long as the wins keep coming.

I have to disagree, I think part of the reason he was struggling early in the season was because he was pressing too hard. I'm not gonna say that being named an all-American got to his head, but there were times he played like it. He seems to be settling in now though.

[shockerfanmas]

I'd say to this point it is perfectly reasonable to have Baker on this list and not FVV. FVV could very well work his way back onto the list though with the way he has played the last couple games.

I tend to agree, although both Baker and FVV both had their struggles early on, I think FVV had more struggles. But you're right, if he keeps playing like he did last week, he could very well be on that next list.

[shockerfanmas]

I'm hoping you aren't saying the team is currently not performing up to expectations...

I'm of the mindset of everybody else. Looking past the record and the national ranking, this team hasn't played great basketball for the majority of the season. I'd say that the second half against Loyola is easily the best half they've played in conference play so far.

The point I think jocoshock was trying to make is that at the end of the season, WSU needs to have a great record, because teams that are (just throwing numbers out there) 30-2 are going to have a much better chance to get their player selected as opposed to a team that finishes 16-16 (not saying WSU would finish 16-16 just using that as an example).

I think for these kind of awards, the voters tend to look a lot at how the team performed overall during the season, as well as the individual.

[jocoshock]

I'm hoping you aren't saying the team is currently not performing up to expectations...

From a win-loss perspective, yes they have. Have we played as well as we could have, no. Are we getting better, yes. Are Fred's numbers so far up to expectations, no, but they are improving. They are improving partially due to Fred making adjustments in his game, and partially due to the team starting to perform better.

If both Fred and the team continue to improve, I expect to see him back on the list. If the team does not continue to improve, then I don't.

[im4wsu]

Originally Posted by Spaulding

I'm hoping you aren't saying the team is currently not performing up to expectations...

And are you saying you think this is the best they can play? I think even Marshal would take exception to that. They are playing okay right now -- but I see so much more upside to this team. And it's coming.l

Has WSU performed to coach's expectations? Only Coach knows what his "expectations" are at this point in the season. Would he say that we have played the best we could. No way. Unless we never had a turnover or never missed a bunny layup or never allowed a point in the paint by an opponent, 3G would never say we couldn't have done better.

But WSU could have won games by a larger margin had we played only seven guys each game. Would that mean we "played better" or even played closer to "expectations"?

Expectations are also totally different from "hoped for" or "desired" results. desired > hoped for > expectations. 3G might desire an undefeated national championship, but hope for competing in the title game with 3-4 losses but perhaps expects to reach the final four and go from there.

[wusphlash]

Ron in final 15 of Wooden Watch.