RPI vs KenPom

[Kung Wu]

I do think their RPI's look a little low for me eye test. KenPom has them right where they should be, I think. We've gotta get all those sub-200 MVC teams to win a couple games and get on the better side of 200. It wouldn't take much at all, but that's exactly why it's so frustrating. If they all could just win pretty much one or two games against regular teams.... but they won't :)

And this is my argument for dividing the conference into two tiers and turning it into a relegation conference. We would play against the top tier twice and the bottom tier only once, so the better teams wouldn't get their RPI dragged down as much. The loser of the top tier moves down the next season, and the winner of the bottom tier automatically moves up -- no politics. Ideally Elgin would add a couple decent schools that focus on basketball as their marquee sport to pull it off well though, otherwise we would have 4 (or 5?) more games to schedule each season.

[Dave Stalwart]

And this is my argument for dividing the conference into two tiers and turning it into a relegation conference. We would play against the top tier twice and the bottom tier only once, so the better teams wouldn't get their RPI dragged down as much. The loser of the top tier moves down the next season, and the winner of the bottom tier automatically moves up -- no politics. Ideally Elgin would add a couple decent schools that focus on basketball as their marquee sport to pull it off well though, otherwise we would have 4 (or 5?) more games to schedule each season.

I like that. 12 team MVC split in half with an upper and lower 6. You get a home and away series with your division and you get a home game against the lower tier. And if you're in the lower division you get a home and away with your division and a road game against the upper division.

[Kung Wu]

I like that. 12 team MVC split in half with an upper and lower 6. You get a home and away series with your division and you get a home game against the lower tier totaling 18 games just like we're used to. And if you're in the lower division you get a home and away with your division and a road game against the upper division.

Exactly. This would put the conference in a position to get more teams in the dance because our better teams wouldn't always be faced with the RPI drag -- and the poor sisters can't *****, all they have to do is win the lower tier (be the best of the worst) to have all the perks of being a top competitor the next season.

Edit: Also, theoretically, the top programs wouldn't get Evansvilled as much because they wouldn't have to play those types of teams in their barn too often.

[WSUwatcher]

I'd love to see a relegation version of the MVC, but it probably isn't coincidence that no such league exists in D-1 basketball -- where do the votes come from to restructure along those lines? The teams that don't take basketball as seriously and thus don't realistically expect to spend that much time in the upper division (and they know who they are): how are you going to get their support? And without it, I repeat: where do the votes come from?

[WuDrWu]

AND screw these programs that schedule crappy.

I'm talking to YOU Southern, and YOU Drake and YOU Evansville.

You can KIND of give a pass to SIU and DU who are rebuilding....but I won't. Evansville...with their best team in at least a decade, and probably for the next decade, ZERO excuse.


You want to be crappy? Fine. Either schedule strong and don't destroy the programs that are trying, or DON'T TAKE OUR NCAA MONEY.

[Kung Wu]

I'd love to see a relegation version of the MVC, but it probably isn't coincidence that no such league exists in D-1 basketball -- where do the votes come from to restructure along those lines? The teams that don't take basketball as seriously and thus don't realistically expect to spend that much time in the upper division (and they know who they are): how are you going to get their support? And without it, I repeat: where do the votes come from?

Bradley is at the bottom of the barrel right now, but they'd vote for it. UNI would too. Illinois State might. Loyola might too. Heck even the bottom tier schools might, because it takes pressure _off_. If you are in a rebuilding year and there is a conference scheduling mandate, that can make a school look even worse and could lead to recruiting issues. If you are having a down year under relegation, you can schedule how you want and build how you want without entirely dragging down the whole conference.

The P5 conferences don't need relegation and most other conferences don't have the unique problems the MVC faces. There's only a handful of conferences that would really benefit from relegation, I think.

[MadaboutWu]

I like the idea a lot but think it should be alternate years H/A for the game against the other division.

Also how do you structure the conference tourney--still on records which would mean the bottom of the top tier would be seeded lower than the top of the bottom? I think that would be fine and any other solution seems difficult but it would have a built in disadvantage for the upper tier in the tourney which is not ideal

[im4wsu]

I'd love to see a relegation version of the MVC, but it probably isn't coincidence that no such league exists in D-1 basketball -- where do the votes come from to restructure along those lines? The teams that don't take basketball as seriously and thus don't realistically expect to spend that much time in the upper division (and they know who they are): how are you going to get their support? And without it, I repeat: where do the votes come from?

On the other hand, more teams in the post-season and presumably on TV as well) means more much needed dollars for every team.

[im4wsu]

This is not really the thread for this, but I was looking at KenPom's SOS and WSU is ranked #28. Only Florida at #25 has a KenPom ranking better than WSU at #32. The average rank of the 27 teams with stronger SOS is 200. The average W/L record for those 27 teams is 3.52 - 5.41.

Similarly, the average SOS rank of the 31 teams ranked higher than WSU's #32 is SOS= 180.97 compared to WSU's #28. The W-L for those 31 teams is 8.06 - 1.55.

[Kung Wu]

I like the idea a lot but think it should be alternate years H/A for the game against the other division.

Also how do you structure the conference tourney--still on records which would mean the bottom of the top tier would be seeded lower than the top of the bottom? I think that would be fine and any other solution seems difficult but it would have a built in disadvantage for the upper tier in the tourney which is not ideal

Yup, I don't think you would change the tourney format much.

[Kung Wu]

I like the idea a lot but think it should be alternate years H/A for the game against the other division.

Yes, that makes sense.