Senior Night In Game Thread

[DaShox]

Agree on John Higgins. He is one of the best officals in the country (he did the WSU-Tennessee game).

Before the play in question, WuShock came out in his referee with cane outfit and walked around Curtis Shaw. It's no accident Curtis Shaw swallowed his whistle. Payback -- pure and simple.

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

Sub always has good explanations and good points. Unfortunately this is the one time I dont really agree with him. But like I said in another post it is what it is.

I think the guy most people are talking about is Shaw.

[newshock1234]

Agree on John Higgins. He is one of the best officals in the country (he did the WSU-Tennessee game).

Before the play in question, WuShock came out in his referee with cane outfit and walked around Curtis Shaw. It's no accident Curtis Shaw swallowed his whistle. Payback -- pure and simple.

im pretty certain, that Wushock did that afterwards, but i could be wrong

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

On a separate note, but one that many people rag on as much as they do the refs, I wanted to make a comment about Gal.

He didn't have a good game last night, and was at his best with Matt not on the floor. He had some turnovers, though I would say the blame was 50/50 on a couple, and didn't seem to have a confident shot.

The thing I really REALLY liked was what he did on the bench. While down a little after Coach sat him, he was cheering, up congratulating teammates coming off the floor, and gave Wendell big props when he sat after hitting that 3.

I am still looking for that "Team" atmosphere, and besides Matt, he really is the only one I see it in.

Ramon is leading by example, and the recruits we have signed are texting and talking to each other almost daily. I think that will go a long way to helping next year, IF we can get some more to buy into that!!

[SpanglerFan316]

And I think I may have been the only one in the Arena to as well.

What gave you a clue? (Was it the blind Wu or was the no-call after the "Wu Walk"?)

[shockerfan1]

The worst part was when Shaw, I believe, got in a little interaction with the fan who was hurling his arms asking for a travel. He (official) then threw his arm over as if to say "you don't know what the heck your talking about". It was a pretty bad decision on the part of the ref. But the crew made up for a terrible first half in the second half. Way to at least go out with dignity I guess?

[SubGod22]

Shaw definitely didn't have a good game tonight.

The call everyone is going to complain about was really a good no call. I know the defender ended up on a WSU players back, but both had possession of the ball when the WSU player pulled the defender onto his back. I know Marshall didn't like the explaination either but I agreed with it. And I think I may have been the only one in the Arena to as well.

Sub,
Who was the official everyone is raising hell about? I agree about the jump ball call and we do talk a lot about a patient whistle. I know Curtis personally and he is a good official. John Higgins is as good as it gets. GP has his days.
Just curious as to who was in the primary for this call.
By the way, I'm sure you learned your lesson about long winded explanations. Short, sweet and to the point. Anything more and you're asking for trouble. 8)

I believe it was Shaw but I'm not 100% at this point. I know it wasn't Higgins as he was at trail.

And yes, I try to keep everything as short and sweet as possible. As the guy who got me started always said, "silence can't be quoted."

[ShockRef]

Shaw definitely didn't have a good game tonight.

The call everyone is going to complain about was really a good no call. I know the defender ended up on a WSU players back, but both had possession of the ball when the WSU player pulled the defender onto his back. I know Marshall didn't like the explaination either but I agreed with it. And I think I may have been the only one in the Arena to as well.

Sub,
Who was the official everyone is raising hell about? I agree about the jump ball call and we do talk a lot about a patient whistle. I know Curtis personally and he is a good official. John Higgins is as good as it gets. GP has his days.
Just curious as to who was in the primary for this call.
By the way, I'm sure you learned your lesson about long winded explanations. Short, sweet and to the point. Anything more and you're asking for trouble. 8)

I believe it was Shaw but I'm not 100% at this point. I know it wasn't Higgins as he was at trail.

And yes, I try to keep everything as short and sweet as possible. As the guy who got me started always said, "silence can't be quoted."

Well, there will be plenty of times you will have to communicate. I was just advising you that when doing so, keep it short, sweet and to the point.
We always use the quote "Silence can not be misquoted." Either way works and is a good policy, especially dealing with the media.
I'll see you STL. 8)

[SpanglerFan316]

Horrible no call. If it was not a foul for the guy being over the back, if they BOTH had posession it was a jump. If they did not both have posession it was a travel as our guy staggered under the weight of the opposing player. I thought it was a foul. Marshall was 15 feet away and thought it was a foul. ALWAYS defending the official is just as short-sighted as ALWAYS attacking the official.

Exactly. There's no way that play didn't warrant a whistle of some sort.

From my vantage point (which is fairly close), that play was an easy foul. Ramon got the rebound all alone and the other guy barely grabbed any ball before falling over him. But like you said, in the unlikely event it wasn't a foul, it had to be SOMETHING.

ShockRef or SubGod22: I think there is a legitimate question here and it seems like you are avoiding answering. How do "you" (officials) justify not making a "jump ball" or "travel" or a foul? Here is one website which discusses the rules. http://basketball.lifetips.com/cat/4...ketball-rules/

What is a Foul?

Basketball, in theory, is a non-contact game. However, it is obvious that when you have 10 players moving with great speed inside a limited space, contact cannot be avoided. If contact occurs in a "bona fide" (normal basketball play)attempt to play the ball and does not place the opponent at a disadvantage, the contact may be considered incidental and no foul will be called. Contact from behind is not a normal basketball play, and the player who is behind is usually responsible for the contact because of his position in relation to his opponent and the ball. The player responsible for the contact receives the foul.

[ShockRef]

Horrible no call. If it was not a foul for the guy being over the back, if they BOTH had posession it was a jump. If they did not both have posession it was a travel as our guy staggered under the weight of the opposing player. I thought it was a foul. Marshall was 15 feet away and thought it was a foul. ALWAYS defending the official is just as short-sighted as ALWAYS attacking the official.

Exactly. There's no way that play didn't warrant a whistle of some sort.

From my vantage point (which is fairly close), that play was an easy foul. Ramon got the rebound all alone and the other guy barely grabbed any ball before falling over him. But like you said, in the unlikely event it wasn't a foul, it had to be SOMETHING.

ShockRef or SubGod22: I think there is a legitimate question here and it seems like you are avoiding answering. How do "you" (officials) justify not making a "jump ball" or "travel" or a foul? Here is one website which discusses the rules. http://basketball.lifetips.com/cat/4...ketball-rules/

What is a Foul?

Basketball, in theory, is a non-contact game. However, it is obvious that when you have 10 players moving with great speed inside a limited space, contact cannot be avoided. If contact occurs in a "bona fide" (normal basketball play)attempt to play the ball and does not place the opponent at a disadvantage, the contact may be considered incidental and no foul will be called. Contact from behind is not a normal basketball play, and the player who is behind is usually responsible for the contact because of his position in relation to his opponent and the ball. The player responsible for the contact receives the foul.

I did not see this particular call. However, I've had many occasions whereas two players reach above their heads (usually for a rebound) and both obtain control of it. If one player has a better angle or is stronger and pulls the other player onto him, it is not a foul. You do not penalize the other player for not letting go of the ball. A held ball should be called in this instance, despite how it appears to the general fan. Remember, the contact did not occur because of one player making a play on the other. It occurred due to players attempting to gain control of the ball. There is a big difference. That is all. 8)

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

This should have been a jump ball. Both players had a hold of it. Ramon was stronger and in better position, so he just pulled the ball down and that resulted in Evansville player being on top of him.

It was a dangerous play that could have resulted in someone getting hurt, and should not have been allowed to run its course the way it did. Obviously, it would not have been Ramon getting hurt. The jump ball should have been whistled, and the ball played out of bounds.

[SpanglerFan316]

ShockRef: Your explanation sounds reasonable and a "held ball" call would probably be (more) acceptable here. The question is how can you explain the actual call made? In general, it seems that a ref might call

(i) Held Ball (as you said)
(BTW: What happened to this rule change (Wednesday, June 10, 1998)?
"With the men's committee's change, held-ball situations initiated by the defense will result in possession being awarded to the defensive team at the closest designated spot to where the held ball occurred. Previously, possession on such a play was determined by the direction of the possession arrow. Alternate-possession situations not initiated by the defense, such as a live ball becoming lodged on a basket support or players from different teams simultaneously knocking a loose ball out of bounds, will continue to be governed by direction of the possession arrow."
http://www.ncaa.org/releases/rules/1...98061001ru.htm)

(ii) Travelling

(iii) Illegal Use of Hands foul, a Pushing Foul or other foul.

The actual call was that the ball went out of bounds off a WSU player. While it is probably correct that the ball went out of bounds off a WSU player, it seems some other call (i.e. one of the three above) should have been made before this point. What do you think?

[SubGod22]

I do agree that a jump ball probably would have been the best call in this situation. And again, this goes from how I saw it from my seat. Although, if he felt like the dual possession didn't last long enough to warrant a jump ball I could see where he may just go with the out of bounds call. Personally, in a situation like we had I think he'd have been better off with the jump ball. I hope that all made sense as my ramblings are starting to make me wonder if I'm communicating my thoughts well.

[DaShox]

Going "Brokeback Mountain" is a foul.

[SpanglerFan316]

Sub: Your answer is pretty weak. I think a better answer might be "The Ref blew the call." Just my opinion.