Lack of Blocks and an Inside Presence?

[Dave Stalwart]

I would argue that the hole came from one particular guy not being ready yet. He would still be "undersized" height wise. I don't really even fault him at all. He's just not there yet. He's close enough though. We are 7-1 right now and every game that goes by brings us closer to the day when literally 4 really big, athletic guys will have figured out how to contribute at a high level. When that day arrives, we become extremely dangerous.

Fortunately for us, the rest of the team is able to win games during the learning curve. It's hard to say there is much of a problem until we see how these guys develop. If a couple of them go on to become great 4 year forwards that lead us like FVV, Ron and TKO someday, we can look back and say the hole was very short lived. Rauno, Shaq and Rashard are all freshman. Hamilton will be here shortly.

[shock]

Sure we need a shotblocker. We also need a bigger guy at the 4. Perhaps by March we will have them.

I would like to see a Semi come down 35 and park at 21st and Hillside.

[asiseeit]

Sure we need a shotblocker. We also need a bigger guy at the 4. Perhaps by March we will have them.

I concur. 3-4 marginal players need to be incentivized by this and become inside intimidators soon by becoming
animals in practice and then carrying it over into their game appearances. If they don't, I hope they look for
programs where their skills can be used. I too, would love for the Duke guy to consider our program as I believe
he would make us a solid top five team the next couple years. Imagine him, RK and RN with our backcourt.

[ShockTalk]

I would like to see a Semi come down 35 and park at 21st and Hillside.

KU is apparently showing interest in Semi. Beakers may have to adjust there thought process of where they stand and change the KU>WSU to Duke>KU.

[WSUwatcher]

Didn't we see a post recently from someone pointing out how low Florida ranked last year in blocks, and accurately observing that it wasn't lack of shot-blocking that ultimately did them in against Connecticut?

Plus, all the complaints about all the juco bigs WSU didn't get tend to be mostly general grumbling and not very specific about actual players and their performance -- can someone (how about you, Aargh?) cite an example of a juco big WSU seriously pursued who's currently having a major impact where he is now, especially in terms of blocks and rebounding?

Poeltl at Utah impressed us with his shot-blocking and inside presence, but there are lots of factors one can point to that did as much or more to cost WSU that ONE game as Poeltl did on defense. Sure, it would be nice (for example) to have one of Kentucky's truckload of bigs. But if WSU gets to tournament time with maybe 2-3 losses and a correspondingly high seed -- an entirely plausible scenario -- plus a season's worth of development for Morris, Nurger, and Wamukota, not to mention the kind of play we've been seeing lately from Carter and continued improvement from Kelly at PF, things will look much better than they do to the worrywarts right now.

[ShockTalk]

Honest question. Other than Hurt, what other 6'10"+ players did posters here think we were close in the running to get a commitment from? You cannot lose what you never were in the running for. Solid, immediate Big Man help is hard to come by. Add that some simply want to play for P5 schools, others elect to stay close to home, and other assorted factors and it's not hard to see the difficulty. Look what HCGM did in getting Cle. Just how many great coaches overlooked him?

By the way, at this point, I'm not disappointed in not getting Hurt. I don't follow K St, but looking at their stats, Hurt's barely 8th in minutes per game. For what ever reason, he's not lighting it up for them early on either.

[Jhook89]

I have also been puzzled the last few years why 3G doesn't seem to recruit many big men. It seems every year we sign a plethora of guards, but hardly every any front court guys. Look at next years class, 4 guards (including frankcamp) and 1 lightly recruited PF. Even the guys we recruit and miss on generally aren't big guys. We do seem to be signing a lot of guards with size though, so that is a plus. We can get by in the MVC without size, but it will continue to be our downfall when we are playing more skilled teams. Even last years team, with its undefeated record, one big weakness was our lack of size down low. There were a lot of advantages to playing Cle at the 4, but in all reality he was a 3 playing the 4. He had some difficulties guarding bigger, physical 4's. All I can say is thank god we got Nurger so late. Think about how even more of a problem our frontcourt would be without him?

[Dan]

I was just talking to a buddy last night that's a huge KU guy. He was complaining about KUs lack of inside presence and saying they don't have anyone that can post up. He said Perry Ellis gets chewed up by bigger players and he's certain they will be one and done in the tourney. When I said we have similar problems, his response was "at least WSU has 2 or 3 guys that can take over a game". Just a matter of perspective. Like someone else said, everyone has holes. We were really blessed last year.

[pie n eye]

Didn't we see a post recently from someone pointing out how low Florida ranked last year in blocks, and accurately observing that it wasn't lack of shot-blocking that ultimately did them in against Connecticut?

Plus, all the complaints about all the juco bigs WSU didn't get tend to be mostly general grumbling and not very specific about actual players and their performance -- can someone (how about you, Aargh?) cite an example of a juco big WSU seriously pursued who's currently having a major impact where he is now, especially in terms of blocks and rebounding?

Poeltl at Utah impressed us with his shot-blocking and inside presence, but there are lots of factors one can point to that did as much or more to cost WSU that ONE game as Poeltl did on defense. Sure, it would be nice (for example) to have one of Kentucky's truckload of bigs. But if WSU gets to tournament time with maybe 2-3 losses and a correspondingly high seed -- an entirely plausible scenario -- plus a season's worth of development for Morris, Nurger, and Wamukota, not to mention the kind of play we've been seeing lately from Carter and continued improvement from Kelly at PF, things will look much better than they do to the worrywarts right now.

This sums it up pretty well for me. I've seen enough from each one of the post guys (Glass and Wamukota included) that gives me hope that they can contribute something this year. Post play wasn't our strenghth last year and I still think these guys have potential to be better than that group. Could I be wrong? Sure. But I've seen enough of Gregg Marshall teams at WSU to know that they get better as the year goes along almost without fail. That this group seems to have plenty of room to improve is exciting to me.

[Aargh]

There are 2 classifications of players that IMHO can't be relied on for productivity - JuCo's in the first half of the year and Fr. They may provide productivity, but productivity is more the exception than the expectation. The last recruiting cycle was a bit late to provide front court productivity this year.

Look at the post depth last year. There was one non-Sr. active player on the roster. That left this year with 1 post player and either Fr or JuCo's for the front court. Wessel is a man on the court, but PF is not his position. The problem wasn't the last recruiting cycle. It existed before that recruiting cycle.

Asking me to name a JuCo we missed who's doing anything is a bit silly. JuCo's never tend to do much in the first half of the year. Pointing out that none of the JuCo's we went after is doing much so far this year just underscores the fact that the front court problem already existed on the roster last year.

This year we have a team that's more suited for play in the MVC than in the tourney. This probably had to happen in order to make the transition from recruiting post players from JuCo's to recruiting them out of HS.

[ShockTalk]

There are 2 classifications of players that IMHO can't be relied on for productivity - JuCo's in the first half of the year and Fr. They may provide productivity, but productivity is more the exception than the expectation. The last recruiting cycle was a bit late to provide front court productivity this year.

Look at the post depth last year. There was one non-Sr. active player on the roster. That left this year with 1 post player and either Fr or JuCo's for the front court. Wessel is a man on the court, but PF is not his position. The problem wasn't the last recruiting cycle. It existed before that recruiting cycle.

Asking me to name a JuCo we missed who's doing anything is a bit silly. JuCo's never tend to do much in the first half of the year. Pointing out that none of the JuCo's we went after is doing much so far this year just underscores the fact that the front court problem already existed on the roster last year.

This year we have a team that's more suited for play in the MVC than in the tourney. This probably had to happen in order to make the transition from recruiting post players from JuCo's to recruiting them out of HS.

Looks to me as though you've answered why the "hole" exists.....and I would agree with this. It would seem very hard to hit a home run for immediate help every year or two from a small pool of Jucos that may or not may not be the answer. I would hope that HCGM looks at future Jucos as additional help, not the whole answer. 4 year players have their risks and take time, but, if successful, can add stability from year to year.

[wu_shizzle]

I have also been puzzled the last few years why 3G doesn't seem to recruit many big men. It seems every year we sign a plethora of guards, but hardly every any front court guys.

7' footers who can walk and chew gum at the same time and have eligibility are a pretty rare breed.

[Cdizzle]

I have also been puzzled the last few years why 3G doesn't seem to recruit many big men. It seems every year we sign a plethora of guards, but hardly every any front court guys. Look at next years class, 4 guards (including frankcamp) and 1 lightly recruited PF. Even the guys we recruit and miss on generally aren't big guys. We do seem to be signing a lot of guards with size though, so that is a plus. We can get by in the MVC without size, but it will continue to be our downfall when we are playing more skilled teams. Even last years team, with its undefeated record, one big weakness was our lack of size down low. There were a lot of advantages to playing Cle at the 4, but in all reality he was a 3 playing the 4. He had some difficulties guarding bigger, physical 4's. All I can say is thank god we got Nurger so late. Think about how even more of a problem our frontcourt would be without him?

Marshall signed so many big men this year that he literally had to send one of them to prep school. I'm not saying I wouldn't mind having a Top 10 big man added to our recruiting haul, but maybe a little distance from the ledge is necessary. I really hope you don't call in to the coaches show with comments like this.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

I have also been puzzled the last few years why 3G doesn't seem to recruit many big men. It seems every year we sign a plethora of guards, but hardly every any front court guys.

7' footers who can walk and chew gum at the same time and have eligibility are a pretty rare breed.

I think the concern here is not about lack of 7 footers, but lack of more standard size bigs (6'9" or 6'10") so we aren't relying on the Evan Wessels of the world to play the 4 spot. A few more "true 5s" would be nice.

I will add that I disagree that Marshall doesn't recruit many big men. I think he recruits, and brings in, a reasonable spread of players across the various positions, but he has tended to hit much more consistently with the guards and miss much more often with the bigs. That and the fact that most of the bigs that turn out to be solid contributors are not 4 year players. Garrett Stutz is probably the only 4 year big that we've had in the Marshall era that I would get excited to sign back up for another 4 years at this point. Compare that to Toure Murry, Cotton, FVV, Baker.

[ShockTalk]

I think the concern here is not about lack of 7 footers, but lack of more standard size bigs (6'9" or 6'10") so we aren't relying on the Evan Wessels of the world to play the 4 spot. A few more "true 5s" would be nice.

I will add that I disagree that Marshall doesn't recruit many big men. I think he recruits, and brings in, a reasonable spread of players across the various positions, but he has tended to hit much more consistently with the guards and miss much more often with the bigs. That and the fact that most of the bigs that turn out to be solid contributors are not 4 year players. Garrett Stutz is probably the only 4 year big that we've had in the Marshall era that I would get excited to sign back up for another 4 years at this point. Compare that to Toure Murry, Cotton, FVV, Baker.

Where do you think Nurger, Kelly, and Morris are as "freshmen" compared to where Stutz was his first year? Is that reason to be excited?