Lack of Blocks and an Inside Presence?

[Aargh]

In some ways I relate Marshall's recruiting to baseball recruiting. In baseball, the best recruits are those right at the top of those who won't go in the draft out of HS. Marshall's recruiting could be seen as looking for the best 4-year players.

Then throw in the fact that any WSU recruit knows they're going to run, run, run - and lift, lift, lift. Then they're going to work in practices like they've never worked before. Some don't want to do that and some don't think they need to do that. Every one of those factors limits the recruits available to WSU. If there's going to be a recruiting issue, it's most likely to show up in the front court, because there are fewer players at that height and it takes longer to debvelop those players.

Remember the fifth starter poll before the season? Wessel wasn't even on the list, and many posters were saying that if Wessel were still the 5th starter by the Memphis game, that we were in big trouble. Obviously we're not in big trouble. OTOH, if there's an NCAA run with a 6'4" PF, I'd be a little surprised. Pleasantly surprised, but still surprised.

I've used the term "recruiting hole". That's an observation. There is a difference between an observation and a criticism.

[WSUwatcher]

Hook, the roster you cited for next year -- and accurately described as not the final one -- is sixteen deep not counting Wamukota. And don't count him out: guys with some skills and athletic ability whose main deficiencies are strength and experience can sometimes develop amazingly fast.

Even with Frankamp (note spelling) probably paying his own way that's 15 plus Bush, so more names have to be removed. Still, there are enough that could easily drop out to make for exciting prospects next year. As for me, though, I think the prospects for this year are pretty exciting, too.

I think JD's comparison of Marshall-era recruiting to Moneyball is a pretty good one. The good news is that whereas the A's have had pretty severe budgetary constraints for a long time, WSU has gradually been able to aim higher every year or so in its pursuit of players. And I absolutely agree with the poster who remarked somewhere on the "blue-bloodish" laments we're starting to see. Like many others, I was a season ticket holder during the 90's, which makes it hard for me to take seriously the complaints that presume WSU's current elite status is a given rather than a work in progress, and that recruiting success (for example) can nowadays just be assumed and expected.

[shocka khan]

Aargh, your post reminded me of "Stormin" Norm Stewart.

Sometimes he'd end up with 5 or 6 scholarship players. He had a lot of players quit, get injured or get kicked off the team. But his teams were always underrated and played hard. I think it had something to do with the way he worked them.

[asiseeit]

With EW hurt I've seen others wanting RK to start. Now, you all know from my previous posts
that I have praised RK's play and think he is going to be a prominent player this year and in
the future, however, I think he has already pretty well established himself. We need a sixth
man like him and he fits the role well, I think. We also need to develop a true postman. If
EW needs some time to heal I would rather start RN or SM and let them get some confidence.
Last year we flip flopped starts with CL and KC and it worked out well. Both improved and
became vey good players which put us solidly in the top ten teams.

[LandStander]

With EW hurt I've seen others wanting RK to start. Now, you all know from my previous posts
that I have praised RK's play and think he is going to be a prominent player this year and in
the future, however, I think he has already pretty well established himself. We need a sixth
man like him and he fits the role well, I think. We also need to develop a true postman. If
EW needs some time to heal I would rather start RN or SM and let them get some confidence.
Last year we flip flopped starts with CL and KC and it worked out well. Both improved and
became vey good players which put us solidly in the top ten teams.

I can also see them starting Shaq over R Kelly. When cotton was out Morris started the 4 against Newman. But it could be like last year where a different 5 started almost every game and was a practice based decision. This time it'll be at the 4.

[Jhook89]

I can also see them starting Shaq over R Kelly. When cotton was out Morris started the 4 against Newman. But it could be like last year where a different 5 started almost every game and was a practice based decision. This time it'll be at the 4.

Kelly had 22 minutes to Nurgers 7 and Morris 8 last night. Kelly getting so many more minutes in a game like that one last night probably means 3G trusts Kelly more at this point. I would guess Kelly would start, but it wouldn't be shocking to see Morris.

[Rlh04d]

You have a point to an extent. Guards are indeed more plentiful in general. However...

Gonzaga has a 7'1" Junior that has been in the program for 3 years now and is playing 23 minute a game this year. They also have a 6'10" freshman playing 19 minutes a game. I wish that was us.

We all know about Poeltl at Utah. I wish one of our 7' project players would turn out to be half as good as that guy.

Stephen Hurt may or may not turn out to be a nice player, but the fact that Marshall recruited him and then a (not blue blood) team like KSU got him is disappointing to me.

Unfortunately, every single big currently playing you just mentioned is a foreign player, for a reason.

[jocoshock]

▪ It is also worth noting the caliber of defenses faced by the Shockers in nine games when thinking about offensive numbers and the progress of the newcomers.

Six of the eight NCAA Division I opponents faced by WSU rank in the top 120 (there are 351 schools) in forcing turnovers (turnover percentage as measure by kenpom.com).

Seven rank in the top 150 of adjusted defensive efficiency (points allowed per 100 possessions by kenpom.com) and five rank in the top 85.

Five rank in the top 103 of defensive effective field goal percentage (which takes into account the extra value of three-pointers).

So if you found yourself thinking that the Shockers are playing a lot of teams with long, aggressive athletes playin in schemes that make it difficult to pass, dribble and shoot, it appears you were correct.

http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/wichita-state/shockwaves/article4572421.html

[BostonWu]

If given the hypothetical option would you take a ceiling of Durley and Miller for Shaq and Nurger?

[Dave Stalwart]

If given the hypothetical option would you take a ceiling of Durley and Miller for Shaq and Nurger?

On this team, no. Oddly enough, I believe we have guards who are good enough to perpetuate the winning during the learning curve of Shaq and Nurger. I think Shaq and Nurger will be different but as good as Miller and Durley. For Shaq vs Durley, I think its a close race that leans toward Shaq. For Nurger and Miller it's a close race that leans towards Miller. In other words, I would be more surprised by Nurger outplaying Miller than I would be if Shaq has a better career than Durley. But both of our current guys come in with a lot of potential and they aren't that bad right now.

That was a really good question. I think it's one of those where our two current guys are close enough and promising enough that you've just gotta take the gamble on them. It will be another fun topic later on as they progress and we begin to see where these guys' ceilings are.

If I could make trades, I don't think I could make myself do it. Remember that Durley as a freshman was also a project and Miller as a freshman was nothing like Miller as a senior.

[Steeleshocker]

▪ It is also worth noting the caliber of defenses faced by the Shockers in nine games when thinking about offensive numbers and the progress of the newcomers.

Six of the eight NCAA Division I opponents faced by WSU rank in the top 120 (there are 351 schools) in forcing turnovers (turnover percentage as measure by kenpom.com).

Seven rank in the top 150 of adjusted defensive efficiency (points allowed per 100 possessions by kenpom.com) and five rank in the top 85.

Five rank in the top 103 of defensive effective field goal percentage (which takes into account the extra value of three-pointers).

So if you found yourself thinking that the Shockers are playing a lot of teams with long, aggressive athletes playin in schemes that make it difficult to pass, dribble and shoot, it appears you were correct.

http://www.kansas.com/sports/college...le4572421.html

And with this opposition we still have the #12 adjusted offensive efficiency rating on kenpom.

[Dan]

Fifi Miller didn't break out until his senior year. He was forced to start due to lack of options. Nurger has already shown an ability to stretch the defense, he just needs to toughen up. He will be 25 by the time he graduates WSU, take that for what it's worth.

[MadaboutWu]

And with this opposition we still have the #12 adjusted offensive efficiency rating on kenpom.

Adjusted offensive efficiency accounts for the opposition already, in other words we might not look super efficient but it shows that we are given how hard our schedule has been.

[BOBB]

If given the hypothetical option would you take a ceiling of Durley and Miller for Shaq and Nurger?

Yes and twice on Sunday.

[Dave Stalwart]

Yes and twice on Sunday.

I probably over thought it because I'm trying to project how Shaq and Nurger might finish as seniors. The more I think about it, though, I'm not sure. I do think Nurger an Shaq are at least more athletic. Maybe that will pay off in the end.