The OFFICIAL Shocks vs. Runnin' Utes Game Thread

[Play Angry]

I commented to a friend that we're now likely out of the running for a #1 seed in the tournament, even if we win every other game until then. What do you guys think?

Very remote possibility that we win out from here, but if we do we would likely still get a 1 seed.

A committee member stated in an interview following Selection Sunday last year that our spot on the top line was probably still safe even if we'd dumped the ISUb game in St. Louis. Our schedule is significantly stronger this year, and the MVC looks like a multi-bid league.

[CBB_Fan]

This was an away game against a top 25 team. Not only that, but it was a uniquely hyped event for Utah. This is the first top 25 showdown they've had in their house in 15 years, so they were pumped way above normal. We had crap games from our freshmen and a horrible game from Fred, got the usual call discrepancy for an away game. Despite all that, we lost by just 1 in overtime and had several chances to win at the end. I'm not discouraged. We played crappy and still nearly beat a top 25 team on the road.

This game is important to play because it shows our deficiencies and lets everyone know they aren't invincible. Without a game like this, these issues could persist until they get abused in the tournament. Notably our freshmen need to just learn to play smarter; they were outworked for rebounds, embarrassed when they tried to make plays, and often got lost on defense. Fred needs to learn how to play without Cle; people are clearly defending him better this year and he doesn't have a plan for it but to trust his shot. I think we'll fix these issues and be better for it.

All in all, you have a game a lot like UK last year. A good opposing team that was pumped for the game, and a discrepancy in FT attempts, and an off game from Fred. This game was also on the road. But instead of it ending our season, we can use it to improve now and win this type of game in March.

[Kung Wu]

I was at the game last night with my 9 year old son and made him watch Ron Baker all night long. In person Ron Baker is so much more quick and athletic than what I was expecting, he's strong, skilled and smart. His left hand dribble looks stronger than his right hand. Again, I wasn't expecting him to be as quick as he looked in person, his jab step is quick and moves the defender and he has counter after counter move. Very quick and smooth on the quick draw as well.

Baker is indeed a stud. I felt like he was a little off (compared to normal) early on in the game, but started turning it on toward the end.

Poeltl is a beast. Good luck hanging on to that cat for four years ... the NBA is gonna be knockin' on his door soon. You've got a nice set of guards too. I'm thinking you guys are going to have one heckuva year.

Your crowd came across awesome on TV too -- you should be proud of 'em, like we are ours.

[ShockerEngineer]

Now, the Utes had better deliver and beat KWho on the 13th.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

I commented to a friend that we're now likely out of the running for a #1 seed in the tournament, even if we win every other game until then. What do you guys think?

I still think the Shox will likely lose atleast 1 more game somewhere along the way, but if they enter Selection Sunday with this Utah game as their only loss this year, they are a lock to be a #1 seed.

[im4wsu]

Everyone that I was watching with noticed this as well.

Nurger played 11:24 and I believe Poeltl was on the floor that entire time as well. Poeltl had 4 points,1-3 FG, 2-2 FT, 3 REB, a block and a PF.
In the remaining time (approximately 24 to 25 minutes), Poeltl had 8 points, 3-3 FG, 2-8 FT, 8 reb, 2 blocks and 2 fouls.

So doubling the stats to adjust from 11:24 to 23:00 minutes, Poeltl would have 8 points, 2-6 FG, 4-4 FT, 6 REB, 2 blocks and two fouls.

The difference in FG% and rebound totals support the "feeling" that Nurger did well.

[shoxlax]

This loss does not bode well, what a way to start off the Conner Frankamp era!

I just knew somebody was going to post that today.

[shoxlax]

Fred had a ton of good looks from during the first 35 minutes of the game. He had some jumpers spin in and out and some layups that just barely rollled off. He missed them, but almost every one of them was a good shot from a decision making perspective. If they simply fall, all the comments are about how amazing Fred is.

I'm so glad Fred trusts his decision making more than some of the posters on this board. I am actually a skeptic (relative to a lot of Shocker fans) about Fred's actual physical abilities (I think he is very good, but not out of this world good), but the key is that his head is screwed on right... better than almost any player I've ever seen. Questioning if the awards are affecting his judgement? Couldn't be further off base.

Jamar I actually agree with all of that, however, 100% measured logical responses or comments on a message board when your team is losing is just unrealistic. God knows I've said some things on here that led me to believe someone slipped me a roofie when i posted.

[pinstripers]

he shot too much

[1979Shocker]

I know a lot of people wanted Fred to stop shooting,but as long as it is in the flow of the game, those that should be shooting 3's have the green light from Marshall. Fred probably won't have a worse shooing night of his career at Wichita State. And it wasn't just his outside shots that weren't falling. It was his free throw shooting, too. If he shoots like he normally does, it's a double-digit win. With Fred hitting his 3's, that would probably made Ron's defender cheat a little more towards Fred, giving Ron more open looks, too.

Other little things that could have improved our chances of winning, some which have already been mentioned.
1. The missed dunk by Ron. I think Shaq also had a missed dunk.
2. Carter unable to stay out of foul trouble.
3. The ill-advised 3-pt shot early in the possession by Kelly. I don't think he should have even been shooting the 3, even if he was open. He'll probably be okay taking that shot later in his career, but not in that game. I also think one of Fred's missed 3's was early in the possession.

[forevershockerfan]

Nurger played 11:24 and I believe Poeltl was on the floor that entire time as well. Poeltl had 4 points,1-3 FG, 2-2 FT, 3 REB, a block and a PF.
In the remaining time (approximately 24 to 25 minutes), Poeltl had 8 points, 3-3 FG, 2-8 FT, 8 reb, 2 blocks and 2 fouls.

So doubling the stats to adjust from 11:24 to 23:00 minutes, Poeltl would have 8 points, 2-6 FG, 4-4 FT, 6 REB, 2 blocks and two fouls.

The difference in FG% and rebound totals support the "feeling" that Nurger did well.

We need Nurger to keep improving along with Kelly and they will. Bush had 3 fouls in 6 minutes and had 0 rebounds. While Morris did not score,

he did get 5 rebounds. Kelly had 4 rebounds and 4 points in 16 minutes.

Wessel played his best game this Season with a whopping 9 rebounds. If he starts scoring more, that will really help. Our dismal shooting last night

was a problem. However, I still think that we will really start shooting the rock much better both inside and outside. I think we will set team records

for 3-point shooting downstream. More important though is to also establish our inside offense more. Along with that, our team defense will ignite us

and improve which will gain us some very easy shots. I am so glad our schedule is improving each year which better prepares us to shine in March and we hope April.

Last night was a learning curve to educate us and prepare us downstream. Everybody in the NCAA is going to lose some games along the way. We will keep plugging

away at keeping these loses to a bare minimum.

[ShockerPrez]

I know a lot of people wanted Fred to stop shooting,but as long as it is in the flow of the game, those that should be shooting 3's have the green light from Marshall. Fred probably won't have a worse shooing night of his career at Wichita State. And it wasn't just his outside shots that weren't falling. It was his free throw shooting, too. If he shoots like he normally does, it's a double-digit win. With Fred hitting his 3's, that would probably made Ron's defender cheat a little more towards Fred, giving Ron more open looks, too.

Other little things that could have improved our chances of winning, some which have already been mentioned.
1. The missed dunk by Ron. I think Shaq also had a missed dunk.
2. Carter unable to stay out of foul trouble.
3. The ill-advised 3-pt shot early in the possession by Kelly. I don't think he should have even been shooting the 3, even if he was open. He'll probably be okay taking that shot later in his career, but not in that game. I also think one of Fred's missed 3's was early in the possession.

Several missed defensive rebounding opportunities late as well.

This loss hurts as we didnt take advantage of doing little things to win.

OTOH, we didnt play our best and still mustered a furious comeback to give ourselves a chance.

We didnt play 40 minutes and Utah is not a team you can get away with that.

[Jhook89]

Jamar I actually agree with all of that, however, 100% measured logical responses or comments on a message board when your team is losing is just unrealistic. God knows I've said some things on here that led me to believe someone slipped me a roofie when i posted.

One think I remember Phil Jackson saying about one of the differences between Kobe and MJ was that MJ knew when it wasn't his night shooting and he'd find a way to get others involved while trying to impact the game in other ways not involving him shooting. Kobe will just keep shooting till he makes it.

Fvv is my favorite player on the team and he is one hell of a player. That being said, last night was definitely an off night for him and I wish he would of found a way to get others the ball a little bit more. Baker is our superstar and if anyone's going to shoot it 19 times it should be him.

[_kai_]

This loss does not bode well, what a way to start off the Conner Frankamp era!

Back to the Future! You're a year off.

[WSUwatcher]

FVV had a rough game.

That said... If it wouldn't remind me of the eventual result of the game, I'd have a constant loop of his 3 at the end of regulation playing on my computer monitor. He jukes the guy out of his shoes, steps back and drains the three. We have a lot to be excited about this season even after that game.

That was an impressive shot, and he stepped up when he needed to even on a rough night -- except...

Oh, except, except, except... FVV doesn't need me to tell him, and Marshall may not be worried, but Fred really, really needs to become straight cash at the foul line down the stretch, and at this point he just isn't. Last year's MoState overtime scare could have been a win in regulation (and more comfortable in OT) had Fred taken care of his FT business late. Last night, no need to say anything more.

I know stuff happens, and even the best foul shooters have untimely misses. Wooden's UCLA team stole a championship from Louisville one year when a Cardinal who hadn't missed a free throw ALL YEAR (28 for 28, or something like that) failed to clinch the game with his first miss; I remember the Shocks getting unexpected life against Creighton when one of their FT machines missed in the closing seconds; and my NBA favorite Spurs might well be chasing a threepeat right now if Manu Ginobili (a career .833 FT shooter in the NBA, vs. Fred's career .789 at WSU so far -- which to be sure is pretty good by college standards, but wouldn't it be nice to have those 8-9 extra makes sprinkled in?) hadn't missed one during the fateful last 30 seconds of regulation in game 6 of the 2013 finals against Miami.

So Fred's in good company, and I feel good about seeing him with the ball late in games -- but I'd feel even better if he were more automatic with his late game foul shooting. I have a hunch it's going to happen, because no one is more conscientious and committed to winning (plus, it's something he'll want to do if he has NBA aspirations). And I hope it doesn't come up much during the season because the games aren't that close down the stretch. But when it does come up, I'm eager to see a different outcome next time around.